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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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with gene increase on the power cast

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we've got a really fascinating episode

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today kind of a retrospective you know

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when we look back on the work

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of a somewhat recently departed ufo or

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paranormal researcher

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and

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cover

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reason we do that

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is because we

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don't progress anywhere in this crazy

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field if we don't understand what has

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come before

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otherwise you have lots of young people

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who

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unfortunately

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repeat the same mistakes i mean there

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was a post in one of our forums just

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i don't know a week or two ago back

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where the poster was suggesting that

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maybe we don't want to hear about the

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60-year plus cases

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and i can understand with roswell that

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sometimes that has gone too far although

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the roswell slides is still something

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that

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is getting a lot of coverage and we have

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to keep up with what may or may not

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happen

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but again it's about learning the

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lessons of history

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otherwise they repeat the same old

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mistakes am i wrong in that chris

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no i don't think you are um i think

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what's important for people that are you

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know coming into the field

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at this late date

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especially younger people they need to

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be pointed towards proper

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sourcing and shows like ours uh

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mysterious universe uh micah hanks show

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uh greg bishop show

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these would be good places to start

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going through the archives and getting

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yourself up to speed and keeping a

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notebook in a pen handy so that

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when a book is mentioned

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that uh is being recommended by someone

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who

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you know

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you would think uh being in the field

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for x amount of years that uh

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the before mentioned folks would

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would have all kinds of recommendations

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for

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resource materials to bring yourself up

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to speed

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i think richard dolan's new book you

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know ufos in the 21st century mind is a

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really good

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entry-level book

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that puts not only the ufological

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subject into a cultural context it also

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puts it into a political context and

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you know richard has done a great job in

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that book and

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of course there are other books too get

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a copy of you know john keels operation

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trojan horse

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uh i think is is an excellent uh

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entry-level book the ufo experience by

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jay allen heineck you know these are

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books that once you read these books

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then it points you in particular

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directions

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into the realm of an ivan sanderson or

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len stringfield some of the early

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pioneers in the field that have their

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work has so much uh information and

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there's so much in there that a young

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person or somebody newly interested in

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the field could could really sink their

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teeth into and and get a real quick

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education

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that way when you tune into shows like

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the paracast you're not going to be

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sitting here scratching your head going

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what are they talking about

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so

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write any books but was one of our best

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researchers and investigators and most

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importantly one of our finest networkers

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uh pre-internet was the subject of our

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show today uh mr tom adams

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thomas r adams which i think the r we

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never could figure out what it stood for

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he would never say but i guess it's

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richard

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well you know a lot of times people have

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middle initials that have no real

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definition okay harry asked truman what

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the s stand for

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stanislaw

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[Laughter]

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forrest j ackerman the famed

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science fiction fan and critic and

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collector yeah i can't help you with

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that one

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the answer is that it didn't stand for

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anything oh

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oh okay

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so maybe thomas r adams there

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well we can't obviously call him back

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unless we get the ouija board to work no

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unfortunately yeah

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it's a real loss but uh we'll get into

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some of the uh

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very interesting aspects of tom's life

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and how instrumental he was for me

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personally uh i he was encountered him

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among my most important and closest

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associates when it came to getting my

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lame ass up to speed when i first

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started out in 93

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writing a simple article for my local

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newspaper and who would have thought

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that all you had to do was sprinkle some

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water on it and there was this weird

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kind of career that sort of came out of

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nowhere but tom was really instrumental

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and our guest today david perkins uh

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knew adams all the way back into the mid

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70s into 75 and

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uh david spent a lot of time with him

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they did a lot of road trips and and

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we're going to get into some really you

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know historical and very compelling

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information about their work and and how

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all this dovetailed to the next

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generation of researchers uh among uh

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whom i count myself so this is going to

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be a bit of sweet but uh we want to

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honor the man and not get too uh

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too depressed at his passing but uh he

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was very very important to me i didn't

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know him well but our paths crossed

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frequently because i work with people

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who worked with him and occasionally did

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have contact with him so we'll leave it

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at that let's just catch up on a couple

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of things before we split for our break

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and then we bring on david perkins

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now

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obviously there's been a lot of interest

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in

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chris's

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san luis valley

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camera project you're getting a few

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donations offers of help that's moving

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along maybe you can give us a quick

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update

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yeah we have um a new person has stepped

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up we lost our our initial base station

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location

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because of bandwidth issues

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but a guy

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has stepped up who lives east of alamosa

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has a just a wonderful view of blanca

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and the sand dunes from his property he

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works for comcast so he knows everyone

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in the valley that has anything to do

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with communications he's going to be an

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invaluable member of the team he's all

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excited about

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getting involved establishing the base

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station at his property with the

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recording magnetometer reporting

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gravitometer our acoustic experiments

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you know obviously our our emf sensors

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the all sky cam the all important all

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sky cam which will trigger be the

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trigger point for four events for the

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other cameras to then wheel around and

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follow the action

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and so this is a real major uh step

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forward i also had a about a two hour

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talk with mark d'antonio who of course

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as many of our listeners know was on the

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show a short time back and he's the

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chief video analyst for mufon but he's

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also uh the right-hand man in the uh

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euphotog project with with douglas

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trumbull and

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that conversation was very interesting

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to hear

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the state of the art of their particular

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process of putting together hard data

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sensing arrays uh they're talking about

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gamma uh readers and cameras that go all

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the way to the infrared and can be used

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during the daytime

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just amazing amounts of work that's

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going into their project and we both

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agreed that we should dovetail our

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efforts to some degree and help each

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other out i made the joke to mark you

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know too bad you don't doug douglas

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still doesn't have that harm because i

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could tell him where to park it

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because i always felt that that was

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probably the big issue he had this

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million-dollar hummer and

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scratching his head trying to think of a

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place to park it so i'm really uh you

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know pleased to hear about their

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progress

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and pleased to finally get a chance to

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get some quality time with mark and and

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go over some of the particulars um some

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of the software

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applications they're going to be using

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may be made available and probably will

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be made available to other projects like

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like mine

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i'm really looking forward to a team

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approach at this and it's exciting

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because this to me is a true step

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forward for the field no one has ever

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done this before to our knowledge and

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this is going to be historic and

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groundbreaking

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if someone wants more information about

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the san luis valley camera project where

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do they check it out we're going to get

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a site up uh that'll have the streaming

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image from the array

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but uh prior to that you can contact me

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through the paracast or you can contact

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me at cobb c-o-b at

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tmv which is the initials for the

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mysterious valley tmv

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dot us

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all right c-o-b at tmv.usus

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and no spam please okay just a reminder

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a reminder too that we have a second

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radio show that we do each and every

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week and we've been doing it for close

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to six months now it's called after the

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paracast but there's only one way to get

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it go to

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plus.thepowercast.com

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sign up for

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powercast an enhanced version of this

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higher quality audio for a modest

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or more

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you get a free copy of the ebook version

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of stalking the tricksters from chris

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o'brien that he has generously donated

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to the cause he could make money with

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that but he decided to let us give it

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away plus doctorpowercast.com

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plus.powercast.com we remember

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tom adams with david perkins and more

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with gene and chris you're in the

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first game attack of the rockoids and it

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was a critically acclaimed success and

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now there is the coming of the

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protectors a former military

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intelligence man is contacted by a space

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woman in a dream a dream that turns out

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to be a nightmare because evil forces on

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her distant planet are planning to

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conquer the earth this is gripping

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science fiction of the classic kind

284
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attack of the rockoids and the coming of

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the protectors find out more at

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rockoaids.com that's rockoids

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r-o-c-k-o-i-d-s dot com

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308
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310
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326
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329
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330
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332
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333
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334
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336
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346
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

368
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:06,079
comment or question about the paracast

369
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:09,600
send it to news at theparecast.com

370
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:12,880
that's news at theparecast.com

371
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,720
and don't forget to visit our famous

372
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:17,120
paracast community forums at

373
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:23,430
this week on the powercast we remember

374
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:26,399
another ufo paranormal researcher is no

375
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:28,480
longer with us tom adams who actually

376
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:30,720
died last year but it took a while

377
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,199
before we all got the news he wasn't

378
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,440
somebody in the front of the headlines

379
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,680
he was one of those people who was like

380
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:39,920
the worker bee works behind the scenes

381
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,320
gets things done and obviously

382
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,639
interacted very closely with people

383
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:46,560
like david perkins our guest this

384
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:49,519
weekend chris o'brien also my old friend

385
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,160
kurt sutherly who's been on the power

386
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:54,560
cast on a number of occasions somebody

387
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,639
that i work with in the 70s and 80s and

388
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:59,120
he worked closely with tom adams it was

389
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:01,680
also another person who worked with tom

390
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:03,760
adams chris as you know

391
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:05,760
whom we've invited on the show on

392
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,279
several occasions

393
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:09,440
but she for some reason

394
00:15:14,310 --> 00:15:11,920
never seems to be able to say yes or she

395
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:14,320
says yes but then you try to set a date

396
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:17,360
it never happens chris what about that

397
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:18,160
well

398
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:19,199
you know

399
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,279
when you're talking about linda howe

400
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:23,040
you know i just don't know what to say

401
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:24,880
or even how to

402
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:26,639
second second-guess uh

403
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:29,600
her motivations uh to do things

404
00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:32,320
i mean tom and david i mean really put

405
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:34,639
her on the map with with their just

406
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,240
selfless help and

407
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:38,800
and uh many hours of getting her up to

408
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:41,680
speed when she first started in

409
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:44,160
investigating for the local tv station

410
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:45,519
where she worked as an environmental

411
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,760
investigative reporter and

412
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:50,000
she wanted to do a story on the cattle

413
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:52,160
mutilation mystery and of course the

414
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:54,800
first place that she goes to are the two

415
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,399
top experts in the field at the time

416
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:58,720
david perkins and tom adams and

417
00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:00,720
you would think someone that

418
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:02,639
really owes a debt of gratitude to uh

419
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:04,399
such a selfless researchers such as

420
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:07,120
adams would like to get on and possibly

421
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:09,360
ray a little bit and honor his memory

422
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:11,120
and tell a few a

423
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:12,800
few neat war stories which i'm sure she

424
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,959
had more than a few and i know david and

425
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:16,639
i do

426
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,800
but uh you know linda's a busy lady you

427
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,880
know i could kind of give her an out and

428
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:23,120
stuff but if it had been me i would have

429
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,680
made every effort to uh

430
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:27,680
get my schedule

431
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:30,560
in line with a taping session and i'm

432
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:32,000
really disappointed that she didn't take

433
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:33,839
us up on her on our offer

434
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,839
so linda moulton howe will not be here

435
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:37,600
but you know what she's so invited i

436
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:39,839
know that there are areas where chris

437
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:41,839
and david disagree with her

438
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:43,759
i know i disagree with her i think

439
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,480
sometimes she accepts too many things

440
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:48,800
and that's unfortunate but then you know

441
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,880
she's entitled to her opinion

442
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:52,880
and there you go and boy does she have

443
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:54,000
one

444
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:56,720
oh yeah oh yeah yeah she does i just

445
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:58,480
wish she'd come on and express it and

446
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:59,600
answer

447
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:01,360
legitimate criticisms i mean she's a

448
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,959
broadcast professional she's been doing

449
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:05,199
this for what 30 some odd years as a

450
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,919
broadcaster you know four years pardon

451
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,000
40 years but who's counting

452
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:12,480
well time flies when you're having fun

453
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:14,720
but having worked that long i can't

454
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:16,799
imagine that professional broadcaster

455
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:19,199
would have problems answering any

456
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:21,120
reasonable question

457
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:23,120
that's just me

458
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:25,120
anyway yeah david do you want to touch

459
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,070
but you know

460
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,480
david i asked you a question and you

461
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:38,559
answered i never had a problem with that

462
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:43,590
ooh

463
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:46,480
oh hi gene hi chris and i pair cast

464
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,520
people it's good to be back on the show

465
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:51,120
all right well we love having you back

466
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,640
boy we'd have you back a lot more if i

467
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:54,720
could get get a hold of you and

468
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:56,320
pin you down i know you're a busy guy

469
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:57,679
thanks for being here

470
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,400
we'll we'll stay after it

471
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:02,240
yep

472
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:03,679
we will indeed

473
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:05,520
okay let's talk about the real thing

474
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:09,039
here okay tom adams how did you first

475
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:10,559
encounter him

476
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:11,360
i

477
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,320
on your board there

478
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:20,799
the late great tom adams

479
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:22,960
and i recommend your listeners

480
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:24,720
brush up on that particular piece

481
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:25,919
because it does

482
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,799
give a pretty detailed history of how

483
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:30,880
we all got hooked up

484
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:34,320
uh back in the 1970s but um

485
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:36,400
it was uh when i started i was just

486
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,400
thinking before the show i basically

487
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:40,720
started into this investigation almost

488
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:42,559
40 years ago

489
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:45,600
coming up in this fall and you know fall

490
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,280
75

491
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,200
colorado was heavy it was

492
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:51,200
mute central at that point

493
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:53,919
just hundreds of cases and that's when i

494
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:55,679
started getting interested collecting

495
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:58,320
clippings interviewing ranchers sheriffs

496
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,760
and so on

497
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,120
so uh

498
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,760
right off the bat uh the first

499
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:06,000
one of the first names i ran into when i

500
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:07,760
was out in the field was uh well have

501
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,840
you talked to tom adams well have you

502
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,520
talked to tom adams

503
00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:13,520
i was who's tom adams

504
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,760
oh he he's the guy that's you know

505
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:17,679
coordinating all of this stuff and uh

506
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:19,440
he's he's somebody you should definitely

507
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,400
talk to

508
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,400
so i heard that so many times from you

509
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:24,480
know sheriffs ranchers

510
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:25,760
whatever

511
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:27,919
that it wasn't long before i figured out

512
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:30,080
how to get a hold of tom adams

513
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,919
and we hit it off uh pretty pretty fast

514
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:35,760
you know i could tell he was

515
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:37,280
serious

516
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:38,799
competent

517
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:41,919
uh and he was definitely somebody that i

518
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:43,840
wanted to be in touch with

519
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,240
so i'm not quite sure when we actually

520
00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:48,240
made our first contact it must have been

521
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:50,840
in 76 is what i'm figuring

522
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:52,799
1976.

523
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:54,559
and then i don't think we actually met

524
00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:58,880
until either later that year or early 77

525
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:01,760
when uh he and his uh partner time

526
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:04,320
gary massey

527
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:06,960
made a trip up to colorado to keep

528
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:09,039
working on investigating the snippy case

529
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,039
in the san luis valley

530
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:13,039
i think that's the first time uh that we

531
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:14,640
met face to face although we

532
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,240
corresponded and talked on the phone

533
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,480
quite a bit before that

534
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,960
so that got us off up and running and he

535
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:23,039
came by where i was uh living in the

536
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:26,000
community libre in colorado i think he

537
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:27,679
was kind of vetting me

538
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,000
he was on his way over to uh

539
00:20:35,669 --> 00:20:32,640
stay at burrell lewis's cabin

540
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:35,679
and meet up with some folks uh

541
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,760
burl of course being the husband of

542
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,360
nelly lewis

543
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:42,000
who's of course nippy was the first

544
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:44,960
classic mutilation or you might say

545
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:46,559
they're having a little pow wow up on

546
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,880
the mountain over there uh

547
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,320
uh

548
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,480
let's see in the sangres overlooking san

549
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,919
luis valley

550
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:55,919
there were some other folks there leo

551
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:57,520
sprinkle and

552
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:00,960
peter van arsdale and john durr

553
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:03,039
who were all real early investigators

554
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:04,559
into this stuff

555
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:07,120
uh so he dropped by to see me and see if

556
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:09,360
i was okay to include in that group and

557
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:10,320
uh

558
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,840
he said well why don't you come over and

559
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:13,600
join us you know the next day and we're

560
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:16,400
having an all day session over there and

561
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:18,080
you uh

562
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:20,159
you get come on over and bring your wife

563
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:21,919
kerry and we'll

564
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:24,080
we'll uh all get together so

565
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:26,880
that's when we first

566
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,520
really started down this road somewhere

567
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:31,440
right around that time

568
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:34,400
we i haven't looked back i guess

569
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:36,080
40 years later

570
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,480
i've never been closer to the answer

571
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:40,799
did tom adams have a day job of any

572
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,640
significance or what tell us more about

573
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:45,200
the person a job

574
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:47,840
i mean like a work a day world job

575
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,919
kind of sort of like that

576
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:51,919
well yeah he did

577
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:54,320
yeah so yeah he had a job

578
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:56,799
uh his his main job i'm not sure when he

579
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:59,200
actually started that job it was uh

580
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:01,200
working for a company that made

581
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:03,520
the little crystal beads that you see on

582
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:06,080
highway signs it's kind of microscopic

583
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,799
type reflecting beads

584
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:10,240
which i always thought was kind of an

585
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:13,520
interesting job i guess but he was uh he

586
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:14,960
worked in the office he was an

587
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:16,559
accountant type

588
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:19,280
so that was uh that was his main

589
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:21,760
livelihood so he was a regular working

590
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,720
stiff

591
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,720
welcome to explore the paranormal which

592
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,400
is true about a lot of these people

593
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,880
who get involved something becomes their

594
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,240
hobby

595
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,559
quite often takes over their lives david

596
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:34,640
perkins is joining us this week a long

597
00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:36,640
time paranormal investigator

598
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,520
specializing in calgary utilations

599
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:41,679
joining gene and chris you're in the

600
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:51,029
a little right a little laugh but always

601
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:52,880
independent-minded

602
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:03,350
is there a secret ufo agenda do strange

603
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:05,440
creatures from the darkest corners of

604
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:07,919
the mind roam the earth is there

605
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,120
evidence for mind control time travel or

606
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devious government conspiracies

607
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find out the inside scoop on the latest

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conspiracies paranormal activity and

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floating phenomena when you subscribe to

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617
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618
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619
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620
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621
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622
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623
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629
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636
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649
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650
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651
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652
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654
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657
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664
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:38,960
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665
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666
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,520
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667
00:25:46,510 --> 00:25:45,279
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668
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669
00:25:51,510 --> 00:25:48,880
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670
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671
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672
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673
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announcement is for business owners and

674
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leaders of organizations who've been

675
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waiting for the right time to build

676
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677
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wait any longer with rock bottom prices

678
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679
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680
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681
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:21,600
buildings at prices you will never see

682
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again don't miss these prices a 50 by

683
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:27,440
100 for 35 000 you heard right that's 5

684
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000 square feet for 35 000 manufacturers

685
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:32,400
if you need a larger building try a 100

686
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:35,600
by 100 commercial building for 129 000

687
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you can't afford to rent with these

688
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:39,520
prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot church

689
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,760
building for under 69 000

690
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,840
with the economy improving and interest

691
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:46,080
rates still at historic lows you can't

692
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:50,240
afford to wait so call 866 91 steel lock

693
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in your price now call 866 91 steel

694
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,070
[Music]

695
00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:08,640
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

696
00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:10,640
encyclopedia in other books you're

697
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:12,910
listening to the paracast

698
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,070
so tom adams as many people who are down

699
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:22,480
and dirty into the ufo and paranormal

700
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:24,799
fields was one of these

701
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:27,919
go-to people the person you go to if you

702
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,200
want to get

703
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:31,200
all the information about

704
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:32,559
some of the great

705
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:35,279
cattle mutilation mysteries and david

706
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:37,120
perkins is joining us this week as they

707
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:39,360
remember him chris let me ask you the

708
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:40,880
question though

709
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,000
when did you first encounter tom adams

710
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:46,640
well um again like david i think i

711
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:48,240
mentioned several times on the show

712
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:50,080
about the new year's eve party that i i

713
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:52,880
gave december 31st 92

714
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,559
where towards the end of the party every

715
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:56,240
little group of people in all you know

716
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,679
three rooms where people were hanging

717
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:59,440
out we're all talking about the same ufo

718
00:28:04,470 --> 00:28:01,440
sighting and i don't think very many

719
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:04,480
people knew how many others had actually

720
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:06,320
also witnessed these two hundred foot

721
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:08,080
ovals that came down out of the

722
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,440
mountains hovered over the town and

723
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,279
zipped off to the south

724
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:13,600
i was fascinated by this because i had

725
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:15,200
been gone that weekend that it happened

726
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,279
the prior thanksgiving day uh

727
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,720
weekend and

728
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:20,640
i i was really fascinated and at the

729
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,080
time i was writing for a little local

730
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:24,000
paper and so i started taking notes

731
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,159
thinking hey this could be a good story

732
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,559
and right as i was uh bringing everybody

733
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,720
together and telling them hey did you

734
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,159
know these people all saw the same thing

735
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:34,320
you did and these people somebody chimed

736
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:35,840
in actually charlotte hire i remember

737
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,919
who it was chimed in and said oh that

738
00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:39,360
was the same night there was a cattle

739
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:41,760
mutilation down in costa county

740
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:42,960
well

741
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:46,000
like david i've never looked back since

742
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:47,120
and uh

743
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,600
you know i quickly uh started making

744
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:51,279
phone calls the first phone call i made

745
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:53,840
actually was to uh burrow lewis who was

746
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:55,919
still alive living down

747
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:58,320
at the great sand dunes uh country club

748
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:59,919
he was actually the maintenance guy down

749
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,039
there and

750
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:03,360
so uh i had a pretty extensive phone

751
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:04,720
conversation with him and one of the

752
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:06,559
first things he told me was

753
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:08,240
well you know if you really want to know

754
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:09,679
about this stuff you got to call them

755
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:12,320
texas boys tom and gary and i said oh

756
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:13,600
yeah and he says yeah and he gave me

757
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,320
their

758
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:17,039
tom's number and he said oh and and also

759
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:20,000
that tv lady uh linda you should talk to

760
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:22,000
her too because she knows a lot about

761
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:23,600
this stuff so you know i'm thinking to

762
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:26,000
myself you know i'm totally wet behind

763
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:28,720
the ears i i really have very little uh

764
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:30,320
knowledge about the subject of course i

765
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:31,840
knew about academic relations i had

766
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:33,360
followed articles in the paper in the

767
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:34,880
70s when i was in

768
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:36,880
in college and and so i was kind of

769
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:38,480
aware of the phenomenon but i thought it

770
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:39,760
was all ancient history i didn't know

771
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:42,480
these cases were still occurring so

772
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:45,440
uh i called tom and uh i'll never forget

773
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:47,600
those first few conversations i spent

774
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,000
many hours on the phone with him and

775
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:52,960
the the first thing that uh i really got

776
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,799
loud and clear from him was

777
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:56,000
that uh

778
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,919
this small kind of close-knit group of

779
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,600
researchers and investigators who had

780
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:01,760
been following this and investigating

781
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:04,399
these cases since the mid-seventies

782
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,679
were hoping

783
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:07,200
someday somebody would show up in the

784
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,720
san luis valley

785
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,120
with uh enough interest and motivation

786
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:13,200
to do some serious field work and so he

787
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:15,440
was he was elated you know it wasn't

788
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:17,919
until several years later that i found

789
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,000
out that he had really pulled back from

790
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,960
the field uh in the early 90s

791
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,760
uh from 89 through 92.

792
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:27,840
uh he wasn't as active as he was i think

793
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:30,080
he was a little disillusioned i think

794
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,760
there was um you know and we'll talk

795
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:33,200
about some of the personal issues that

796
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,039
he was also going through during this

797
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:37,360
time period but but i think i

798
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,240
my enthusiasm and in my um

799
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:42,960
my ability to follow through with uh

800
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:45,440
leads that he gave me uh i think really

801
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:47,440
impressed him enough for for him to get

802
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:50,399
re-energized about this and he he became

803
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:51,279
my

804
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:56,080
three months at this point david had

805
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:57,679
lost his wife curry and was in the south

806
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,679
pacific so i you know

807
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:02,159
tom says as soon as he gets back

808
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:03,840
you got to talk to him because he's

809
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:05,200
right over the hill from you over the

810
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:06,159
mountains

811
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:07,679
he knew that we were going to hit it off

812
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,360
and of course we did i count david

813
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:11,039
amongst you know my very best friends if

814
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:12,720
not my best friend now

815
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:13,600
so

816
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:16,880
uh for those first couple of months

817
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:19,120
through january february into march he

818
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:20,240
sent me

819
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:24,159
thousands of pages of of research and

820
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:25,679
one of the things that i always wondered

821
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:26,960
was how he

822
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:29,120
managed to do so much copying on that

823
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:30,960
poor copy machine that he used and

824
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:32,720
abused at his job

825
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:34,960
i ca i have boxes

826
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:38,559
and boxes of hard files hard you know

827
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:40,799
hard copy files that tom sent me over

828
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,519
the years including every valley courier

829
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:45,600
article that had a mutilation story in

830
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:47,440
it and there were dozens and dozens of

831
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:50,399
them rocky mountain news denver post

832
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:53,360
pablo chieftain he sent me reams and

833
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,679
reams and reams of material and and just

834
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:57,440
overwhelmed me with all this stuff and i

835
00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:00,159
read every single thing that he sent me

836
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:02,159
and i got probably the quickest

837
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,640
education in this particular subject of

838
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:06,080
the unexplained livestock death

839
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,919
phenomenon i got the quickest education

840
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:09,840
probably in history

841
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:11,679
and then of course when when david

842
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:15,200
perkins showed back up over at libre i

843
00:32:18,549 --> 00:32:17,039
spent hours and hours on the phone over

844
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:18,559
the next couple of months with david and

845
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:20,720
then and then the big day arrived it was

846
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:23,440
the 25th anniversary of the libre uh

847
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,320
community i kind of invited myself over

848
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,480
and brought my band and so

849
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:30,240
this was my first chance to actually

850
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,720
meet uh david and meet uh tom and meet

851
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,679
gary

852
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:36,000
i think i stayed what dave about four or

853
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:38,399
five days home grabbed my brother and we

854
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:40,399
spent another week there i think i spent

855
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:42,480
almost two weeks there well you know

856
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,760
what's gonna happen

857
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:45,840
having admitted that chris

858
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:48,320
david's gonna send the bill

859
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:49,760
right

860
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:56,630
now vast question here about tom adams

861
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:58,480
did he ever explain to either of you

862
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:00,799
what attracted him to these strange

863
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:02,880
fields of study

864
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:04,320
chris and i were talking about this a

865
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,919
little while ago we're trying to track

866
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:07,120
that

867
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:08,880
and i was uh

868
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:12,640
i came across the information uh that he

869
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,720
refreshed my memory that he had first

870
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,640
come to the san luis valley

871
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:18,960
1970

872
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:21,600
and ostensibly that was part of some

873
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:23,039
sort of

874
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:26,080
what i understood to be a school program

875
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,080
he and gary massey were both students at

876
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:32,480
i believe it's east texas state

877
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:35,440
university and commerce texas

878
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,240
uh and somehow as part of their

879
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,559
coursework or tom's course work or some

880
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:41,840
sort of

881
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:45,039
uh scholastic endeavor at the time he he

882
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,000
came

883
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:48,720
to san luis valley and the purpose was

884
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:52,159
to study the effects and the aftermath

885
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:54,320
of a so-called paranormal

886
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:57,440
event on a small community

887
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:00,720
which is basically a piece of sociology

888
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:03,120
and i i chris and i were talking about

889
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,799
it's like well where did he come up with

890
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:06,480
that idea how do you even know about

891
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:09,839
snippy in 1970 i mean

892
00:34:13,109 --> 00:34:11,440
something must have been simmering there

893
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:13,119
and i really don't know what it was i

894
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:14,399
think

895
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:16,639
there was a lady named ross henderson

896
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,399
who i believe was associated with at

897
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:20,560
school a little older

898
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:23,760
and i think she had i knew her she had

899
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:25,280
an interest in the paranormal and i

900
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,200
think she and tom gravitated to each

901
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:28,960
other at that time

902
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:31,280
and then chris uh you were talking about

903
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:32,159
uh

904
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:33,200
lonnie

905
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:36,000
verbae yeah for bae um he's the one that

906
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,639
did the ex one of the most extensive uh

907
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:40,720
interviews with nelly lewis

908
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:43,599
uh back just after the case broke and

909
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:46,480
hit the papers in the fall of 75

910
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,679
and uh

911
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:50,079
you know i reprinted that that entire

912
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:53,119
interview in uh the mysterious valley

913
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:55,760
and uh in portions of it in stock in the

914
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:58,240
herd if i remember correctly and i think

915
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:59,680
you know because lonnie i think went to

916
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:01,359
the same school east texas state is tom

917
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:02,640
i think there may have been a connection

918
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:05,040
there as well that may have exposed tom

919
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:07,200
early on to the snippy case and i

920
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,560
remember him telling me that he had

921
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:10,320
wanted to come to the valley

922
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:13,280
uh prior to 70 but but this was this was

923
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:14,320
the only

924
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:16,400
you know the first real opportunity that

925
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:18,720
he had to actually make it out there

926
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,320
and you know one thing we should stress

927
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:21,599
here is is

928
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,359
you know when when you when you talk tom

929
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:25,520
in the 70s or 80s you got to mention

930
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:26,880
gary massey

931
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:29,119
gary was one of the most colorful

932
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:30,880
uh you know just

933
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:31,839
i mean

934
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:35,200
i just whenever i think of a texan gary

935
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:36,480
massey

936
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:40,000
springs to mine tom was more quiet

937
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:41,920
he had a soft accent gary had a very

938
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:44,480
strong accent was extremely flamboyant

939
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:47,280
big cowboy hat the cowboy boots and

940
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:48,560
you know he

941
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:51,200
he had all those texas uh you know

942
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:52,640
analogies like

943
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,280
it's like a cow cow pissing on a flat

944
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:57,359
rock when he talks about about a

945
00:36:01,829 --> 00:35:59,200
rainfall you know he was just filled

946
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:01,839
with these colorful uh uh axioms and

947
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:04,800
witticisms and and these two were like a

948
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:07,599
dynamic duo tom didn't drive

949
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,079
and we never really could figure out he

950
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:12,400
didn't drive he didn't drive i don't

951
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,720
even think he ever had a license

952
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:16,640
he may have but

953
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:19,280
it was anybody who knew tom knew about

954
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:21,040
this and so if tom had to go anywhere

955
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:22,880
and like do a road trip or something of

956
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,240
course gary

957
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:26,880
gary had his van what he called the the

958
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:28,960
beast or something oh you just call it

959
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:32,000
fang oh thang right

960
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,760
well you know we'll continue with this

961
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,280
thing

962
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:37,359
in just a moment david perkins joining

963
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:39,520
us we're talking about the late tom

964
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:42,079
adams with gene and chris you're in the

965
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:51,030
we are the premier independent talk

966
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:54,320
radio network the genesis communications

967
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:56,720
network g c

968
00:37:15,589 --> 00:36:57,839
n

969
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,599
space

970
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:17,760
but the dreams turn out to be true and

971
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:19,680
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

972
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:22,400
with a woman whose far away planet is

973
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:24,880
intent on destroying the earth

974
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:27,359
and now the gripping tale continues in

975
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the coming of the protectors it's the

976
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977
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978
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hapless heroes against powerful

979
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fanatical enemies that threaten the

980
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lives of freedom-loving beings

981
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982
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983
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984
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985
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986
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988
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991
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992
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993
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994
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995
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996
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997
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1003
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1006
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1008
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1009
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1010
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1011
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1012
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1013
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1014
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1015
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1016
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:12,320
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1017
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1018
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:15,200
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1019
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,640
the thing about minerals and mineral

1020
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:18,320
absorption you need to have a

1021
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:20,560
functioning fat system you need to have

1022
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:22,160
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1023
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1024
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1025
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get the benefits from nutritional

1026
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1027
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common that as we get older we don't

1028
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1029
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then you won't be utilizing or absorbing

1030
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1031
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1032
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1037
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1038
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1039
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1040
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1042
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1043
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1050
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1051
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1057
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1061
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1062
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1063
00:41:07,589 --> 00:41:05,430
hi this is james fox from chasing ufos

1064
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:07,599
you're listening to the paracast the

1065
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:14,710
yeah i wonder about somebody who is

1066
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,280
specializing in paranormal research and

1067
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:19,040
doesn't drive i can see their reasons

1068
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,680
for that you know not everybody has the

1069
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,599
temperament to drive or maybe he had an

1070
00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:25,440
accident early on didn't want to pursue

1071
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:27,280
it there was maybe all sorts of reasons

1072
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:29,440
we don't know tom adams with gene and

1073
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,920
chris and david perkins i wanted to kind

1074
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:33,839
of ask you an interesting question here

1075
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:35,680
now we know that

1076
00:41:41,109 --> 00:41:38,560
a lot of people in the ufo field who get

1077
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:41,119
deep and dirty into investigations at

1078
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:42,720
one time or another

1079
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:44,640
getting into cattle mutilations and such

1080
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:46,960
encounter tom adams i did not that often

1081
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:49,040
but i did and other people i knew

1082
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:51,200
encountered him but when you look up tom

1083
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:52,319
adams

1084
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,440
online

1085
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:55,680
the closest you come is

1086
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,920
a british actor who died last year named

1087
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:59,359
tom adams

1088
00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:00,880
isn't that curious

1089
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:03,280
there's not much about him to be found

1090
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:05,599
that's true that's true and uh

1091
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:07,599
just to go back to the driving thing i

1092
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:10,000
covered that in the little uh uh

1093
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:11,920
obituary i guess you'd call it that you

1094
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:14,240
ran on the paraquest board there

1095
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:17,440
about tom's uh this i got from gary

1096
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,280
apparently when tom was a teenager he

1097
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:21,040
took a driving course

1098
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:24,079
and uh was uh driving around with an

1099
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,839
instructor and something happened we

1100
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:27,200
don't know what it was some sort of

1101
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:28,240
incident

1102
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,359
that was

1103
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:32,079
terribly humiliating to tom and he came

1104
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:34,079
back after that and told gary i will

1105
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:35,839
never drive a car again as long as i

1106
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,720
live

1107
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:38,400
and he didn't

1108
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:41,200
i mean talk about idiosyncrasies

1109
00:42:44,790 --> 00:42:43,040
sometimes you know people have those

1110
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:44,800
those things they just get hung up on it

1111
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:46,800
and something was really really

1112
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:48,240
humiliated him

1113
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,160
you know i understand the impact i'll

1114
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:52,640
give you a reason for this i was maybe

1115
00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:55,040
10 12 years old i was learning how to

1116
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:57,280
swim at a summer camp in upstate new

1117
00:43:01,109 --> 00:42:59,440
york at that point i was a little bit

1118
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:01,119
overweight right now i weigh about five

1119
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:03,680
pounds less than i did when i was 18. i

1120
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:05,920
have a normal weight but i was

1121
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:08,400
overweight as a 12 year old kid fat

1122
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:10,800
jewish boy from brooklyn new york

1123
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,640
and i tried to learn

1124
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:15,119
how to swim and something happened i

1125
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,200
jumped into the water and my back hurt

1126
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:19,200
and somebody had to rescue me

1127
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:25,030
sometimes you got to do a lot of

1128
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:27,200
swimming on this show there gene but uh

1129
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:28,720
well that's because i have people like

1130
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,839
you that cause that happen i'm kidding

1131
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:33,520
but you know we've been swimming here

1132
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:35,359
fine we keep our heads above water kind

1133
00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:36,640
of barely

1134
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,839
sort of

1135
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:39,359
but i understand that some kind of

1136
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:40,560
trauma

1137
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:41,760
can happen

1138
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:43,119
where you don't feel like driving ever

1139
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:44,160
again

1140
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:46,960
yeah and gary loved to drive he was your

1141
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:51,200
classic cowboy pickup truck driving fool

1142
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,880
i guess that's okay to say usually he

1143
00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:55,280
had a cold beer between his legs

1144
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:56,720
at all times

1145
00:44:01,349 --> 00:44:00,079
as they do in texas uh a cold lone star

1146
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:01,359
lone star

1147
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:03,599
but that was gary's role he was the man

1148
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:05,520
that drove the truck through thick and

1149
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:07,119
thin and

1150
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:09,839
uh tom sat in the passenger side with

1151
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:11,680
all his maps you know charting out

1152
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:13,119
everything and

1153
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,560
trying to figure out where to go what to

1154
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:16,079
do he was

1155
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:18,480
you know the logistics guy

1156
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,160
but they they

1157
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:22,319
had uh different characteristics and

1158
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:23,760
traits but they really seemed to match

1159
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,880
up well

1160
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,640
they complemented each other very well

1161
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:28,240
in what they were doing

1162
00:44:32,710 --> 00:44:30,319
and they could be you know good cop bad

1163
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:32,720
cop or they could do you know just plays

1164
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:33,839
about any

1165
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:35,599
any role that you wanted to play

1166
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:38,079
whatever the situation demanded

1167
00:44:42,790 --> 00:44:40,960
so it was it was a good partnership

1168
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:42,800
definitely and one thing that i think we

1169
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:45,280
should stress uh pretty early on here

1170
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:48,000
is the incredible intellect that tom had

1171
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,280
in a

1172
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,760
a truly uh

1173
00:44:56,710 --> 00:44:53,839
verging on i mean exceptional

1174
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:56,720
photographic memory he could pull names

1175
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:57,599
dates

1176
00:45:02,150 --> 00:44:59,839
uh times descriptions

1177
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:02,160
uh just out of thin air it just

1178
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:05,440
magically always stunned me at how

1179
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,920
effortless uh his recall his ability to

1180
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:09,839
recall facts and figures and names and

1181
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:10,880
stuff

1182
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:13,200
was was really

1183
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:15,040
that fact alone i think was one of the

1184
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,079
most

1185
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,000
impressive things about the man he he

1186
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:20,560
really had a file cabinet uh for a mind

1187
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,960
and was able to to pull files out at

1188
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:23,839
will

1189
00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:25,040
uh just

1190
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:26,640
by you know

1191
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:29,200
instant recall uh and david i'm sure you

1192
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:32,400
you'd like to comment about that too yes

1193
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,960
indeed that was phenomenal i

1194
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:36,720
i always used to tease him that he had a

1195
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,510
but he uh he

1196
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,880
he was uh

1197
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:46,960
yeah i i've never seen anything like it

1198
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:49,280
really in my whole life anybody

1199
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:50,880
you know people talk about photographic

1200
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:52,160
memories

1201
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:54,960
and i always think yeah yeah whatever

1202
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:57,920
but uh it was some kind of special

1203
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,280
talent or gift uh i i don't quite know

1204
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:03,599
where to put it uh

1205
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:05,040
somebody somebody that could do that

1206
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:07,440
that could just pull those dates times

1207
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:10,240
places faces names anything you want it

1208
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,880
was at his fingertips at all times

1209
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:14,319
i mean you and i are pretty good david

1210
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,920
but compared to tom wow really

1211
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:20,160
really it was phenomenal

1212
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:22,160
and he was always like that all the time

1213
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:24,720
i knew him i mean he never faded

1214
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:27,359
he was a he was a hard person to play

1215
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:30,000
trivial pursuit with

1216
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:31,599
he can remember

1217
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:32,560
every

1218
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:35,119
sitcom character or anything that he'd

1219
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:36,880
ever run across in his whole life when

1220
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:39,520
he was just voracious in his

1221
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:42,160
his reading and uh acquisition of

1222
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:43,599
information

1223
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:46,560
i mean he was just almost you know scary

1224
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:47,440
yeah

1225
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:52,160
from uh money trivial

1226
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:53,839
the only time i ever lost a trivial

1227
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:55,839
pursuit was when you and i were partners

1228
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:57,599
against him and gary and he answered all

1229
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:03,670
yeah it was it was really something uh

1230
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:05,680
don't quite know how he did that where

1231
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,720
he got it but he was he was so curious i

1232
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,640
think you're kind of touching on that

1233
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:12,079
about everything

1234
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,400
and it's a it's a wonderful quality in

1235
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:15,920
an investigator

1236
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:17,760
you've got to be curious

1237
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,160
you got to wonder about everything i

1238
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:22,400
mean and we've talked about this chris

1239
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:25,520
uh in this in this realm there's

1240
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:27,440
i can think of virtually nothing that

1241
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:29,440
doesn't potentially relate to the

1242
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:31,119
subject i mean if you're talking about

1243
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:34,000
you know greek mythology or

1244
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:36,480
you know the latest advances in uh

1245
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:38,880
biology or you know any of the hard

1246
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:41,119
sciences the soft sciences the classics

1247
00:47:44,550 --> 00:47:42,079
the

1248
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:44,560
you know pop culture all of it

1249
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:46,160
it's just environment

1250
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:48,000
yeah i mean everything

1251
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:50,079
potentially relates so you can you

1252
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:52,319
really have to have an incredibly broad

1253
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,599
scope of knowledge and be curious about

1254
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,440
virtually everything

1255
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:00,240
uh it really is a helpful and helpful

1256
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:03,599
trait and he definitely had that

1257
00:48:08,550 --> 00:48:05,200
is there a reason why we don't have a

1258
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:08,560
body of written work from tom adams

1259
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:11,359
well that is a good question uh i never

1260
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:13,280
i was thinking about that this morning

1261
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:15,280
you know what i've got like i say

1262
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:17,920
everything that he has ever published

1263
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:20,240
i've got it here but it was uh he was a

1264
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:22,880
pamphleteer you know basically

1265
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:25,119
and he contributed to you know hardbacks

1266
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,119
and this and that and he was he did a

1267
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:29,200
certain amount of you know tv radio

1268
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:30,240
lectures

1269
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:32,720
but he was just never felt compelled to

1270
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:35,040
uh to get it all together under a hard

1271
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:36,480
cover

1272
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:39,920
uh i think he was in such fluid

1273
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:42,000
a state of flux all the time because the

1274
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:43,760
information was just coming in so

1275
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:45,280
rapidly and he was doing the best he

1276
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:46,160
could

1277
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:48,160
to get it turned around into some format

1278
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:50,800
like his publications uh his broad size

1279
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:52,960
as the stigmata

1280
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:55,200
and it was just in and out in and out as

1281
00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:56,720
fast as he could go

1282
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:59,040
and that as a matter of fact when we

1283
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:00,960
lost our communication we were working

1284
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,599
on a book together which was going to be

1285
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:05,760
the compiled all everything that he had

1286
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:08,000
published and i had published compiled

1287
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:10,000
into one unit

1288
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:12,079
with new material and photos and so on

1289
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:15,200
and that was our book publishing project

1290
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:18,400
it was called mute testimony

1291
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:21,040
and that's where we our paths uh

1292
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:22,880
departed

1293
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:25,760
well was there a falling out how come

1294
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:27,839
you lost touch with him

1295
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:30,640
uh no there's no falling out uh

1296
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,319
we were

1297
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,160
again in the piece that you have on

1298
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:36,240
paracast i talked about that that we

1299
00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:38,319
were cruising right along

1300
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:42,079
and uh i was uh on my end

1301
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,440
in charge of basically getting

1302
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:45,280
everything scanned

1303
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:47,760
into a format you know a digital format

1304
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:49,440
that we could work with and

1305
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:51,520
dealing with photos and photo editing

1306
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:54,720
and i'm starting to run up expenses

1307
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:56,880
and i tell i said tom you know they're

1308
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:59,040
going to be some out front expenses here

1309
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,480
i mean we weren't sure whether this was

1310
00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:02,160
going to be a self-published piece of

1311
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:03,920
work or whether we could get it into you

1312
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:06,960
know mainstream publisher or what but

1313
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:08,000
i

1314
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:31,119
the of the venture

1315
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:33,040
and i i think tom

1316
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:34,640
found that a little humiliating that he

1317
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,119
wasn't pulling his weight

1318
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:39,280
and then i put in in the piece on

1319
00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:41,200
paracast about that last letter that i

1320
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:43,040
got from him that he was

1321
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:43,920
you know

1322
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:46,720
an entire straits financially and he was

1323
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:49,680
gonna have to withdraw from the field

1324
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:52,000
and he said i missed the world but i

1325
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:53,520
suppose it'll still be there when i get

1326
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:54,720
back

1327
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,240
and you know meanwhile giving me

1328
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:58,400
permission to carry on and just do the

1329
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:00,720
book on my own and you know

1330
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:02,800
abdicating all his rights in the project

1331
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:04,960
and saying good luck

1332
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:08,000
so yeah when was this what year

1333
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,880
that would have been um oh geez

1334
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,480
uh

1335
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,160
help me chris what was that i think

1336
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,480
about 2002 maybe later yeah

1337
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:18,720
you're right you're right it was 2002.

1338
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:21,040
okay we'll have more to talk about tom

1339
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:23,920
adams his work

1340
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:24,720
and

1341
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:26,480
we'll explore more of what he did since

1342
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:27,680
there is no

1343
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:30,400
big published record of it david perkins

1344
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:32,000
joining gene and chris you're in the

1345
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:40,630
free from the shackles of corporate

1346
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:44,000
america we're the place for independent

1347
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:45,119
thinkers

1348
00:51:48,069 --> 00:51:46,640
g c

1349
00:52:16,349 --> 00:51:48,079
n

1350
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:16,359
bidbit.co that's bid bit.co

1351
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,800
bidbit.co we the people grow cotton

1352
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:20,880
weave fabric engrave ink embed strips

1353
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:22,480
and fibers to protect from counterfeit

1354
00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:24,240
then carting to a private bank having it

1355
00:52:27,990 --> 00:52:26,319
led back at interest forcing taxes to

1356
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:28,000
service debt this capitalism or was

1357
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:29,760
jefferson correct when stating a central

1358
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:31,359
bank issuing the public currency is a

1359
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,720
greater menace to the liberties of the

1360
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:34,480
people than a standing army hi ted

1361
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:35,760
anderson i'm placing a free silver

1362
00:52:40,190 --> 00:52:37,119
dollar in a book that explains our

1363
00:52:42,309 --> 00:52:40,200
monetary system call for your copy

1364
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:42,319
800-686-2237 it's time to understand the

1365
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:50,069
that's 800-686-2237

1366
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:51,990
hi my name is scott fuchs teacher and

1367
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:54,160
rowing coach for over 14 years i was

1368
00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:56,240
sluggish overweight on prescription

1369
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:58,720
drugs and only 30-something fortunately

1370
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,040
i was referred to dr z and happy to say

1371
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:03,520
dr z's all natural protocols over a

1372
00:53:07,349 --> 00:53:05,359
consistent course resolved my health

1373
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,359
issues i'm in the best shape of my life

1374
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:09,839
and most importantly on zero medications

1375
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:13,200
i'm dr zdanowski author of evology

1376
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:15,119
trained as a primary care physician

1377
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:17,520
surgical manipulation under anesthesia

1378
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,839
expert in nutrition diet weight loss

1379
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,599
immune system and i specialize in

1380
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:24,000
chiropractic my 15 years of professional

1381
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:25,599
experience has taught me the four keys

1382
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:27,520
to vibrant health a balanced muscular

1383
00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:29,520
skeletal system an integrated nervous

1384
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:31,760
system a flowing lymphatic system and a

1385
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:33,520
body filled with over 90 essential

1386
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:35,440
nutrients this has been a secret too

1387
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:37,760
long actualize your potential reverse

1388
00:53:41,589 --> 00:53:41,119
disease call me dr z

1389
00:53:44,309 --> 00:53:41,599
nine 201

1390
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:44,319
five one one seven seven two zero one

1391
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:47,040
nine four five one one seven seven eval

1392
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:56,390
[Applause]

1393
00:54:03,349 --> 00:53:59,680
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1394
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:03,359
standard of paranormal radio

1395
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:04,559
and now

1396
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:07,920
here's gene steinberg

1397
00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:14,069
we honor the memory of tom adams

1398
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:15,119
one of the

1399
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:18,079
key contact points in ufo research

1400
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:20,800
especially cattle mutilations with

1401
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:22,880
gene and chris and david perkins

1402
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:25,200
remember our second radio show after the

1403
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:26,880
powercast

1404
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:28,000
to learn more you go to

1405
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:35,910
that's where you sign up for powercast

1406
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:38,400
plus you get after the power cast the

1407
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:40,880
enhanced version of this show and video

1408
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:42,160
stuff to come

1409
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:44,480
we also give away a free copy

1410
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,440
of

1411
00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:47,760
chris o'brien stalking the tricksters if

1412
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:49,280
you subscribe

1413
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:52,000
for one year or five years

1414
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:54,559
plus.theparacast.com

1415
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:55,520
so

1416
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:57,680
david perkins when we

1417
00:55:00,790 --> 00:54:59,119
left you in our previous segment you

1418
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:00,800
mentioned the fact that you

1419
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:05,119
and tom adams as of about 2002 2003

1420
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:07,680
were preparing this book and he had to

1421
00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:09,359
kind of withdraw

1422
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,440
because of his personal issues

1423
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:13,520
now is that it in terms of contact or

1424
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:15,040
were you in touch with him regularly

1425
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:17,200
after that no there was no further

1426
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,480
contact

1427
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:20,640
oh it was very disconcerting uh yeah boy

1428
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:22,880
that's an understatement uh to uh to

1429
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:26,880
chris and to me to linda howe to

1430
00:55:30,870 --> 00:55:28,880
nancy talbot all these people that were

1431
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:30,880
close friends of his and they were doing

1432
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:32,559
the same thing i was doing it's like hey

1433
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:34,400
you know it's okay

1434
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:35,599
uh

1435
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:41,920
it was just dead radio silence you know

1436
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:44,960
uh and so and we all just

1437
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:46,240
would consult with each other it's like

1438
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:48,480
what's going on what's going on

1439
00:55:52,950 --> 00:55:50,880
and we could never figure it out but we

1440
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,960
eventually all of us came to the same

1441
00:55:56,549 --> 00:55:54,880
conclusion i guess which was it's

1442
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:56,559
obvious that he doesn't want to be

1443
00:56:00,630 --> 00:55:58,960
contacted and let's respect that and

1444
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:00,640
let's hope that whatever this is that

1445
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:04,000
he's going through uh will you know

1446
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:06,799
subside and be resolved and he'll come

1447
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,640
firing back on all cylinders but he

1448
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:10,400
never did yeah

1449
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,240
yeah and we have we've speculated as

1450
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:14,640
well uh as to the

1451
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:15,680
possible

1452
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:17,440
causes of him

1453
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:19,119
completely pulling back and away from

1454
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:20,640
the field and

1455
00:56:25,670 --> 00:56:22,559
you know i remember distinctly the last

1456
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:25,680
time i saw tom and gary actually

1457
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:26,720
was

1458
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:29,680
in december 1999 at david's house in

1459
00:56:33,190 --> 00:56:30,960
santa fe

1460
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:33,200
and i remember you know tom was was kind

1461
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:34,880
of withdrawn and quiet and he seemed

1462
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:37,119
pretty frazzled he seemed burnt out

1463
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:39,280
uh you know i'm not sure

1464
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:40,720
what he was going through at the time

1465
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:42,640
but he seemed a little bit quieter than

1466
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:43,839
normal

1467
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:45,920
preoccupied

1468
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:46,880
of course

1469
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:49,520
i had made a bet that first night that i

1470
00:56:54,549 --> 00:56:52,319
had met tom gary and david up at libre

1471
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:54,559
at the party there

1472
00:56:59,190 --> 00:56:57,359
i had bet gary a case of beer that

1473
00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:59,200
someone would be charged with the crime

1474
00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:00,799
of cattle mutilation before the end of

1475
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:02,319
the decade

1476
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:04,720
and that was uh you know

1477
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:05,920
seven years

1478
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:09,839
be able to get at least one person

1479
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:13,440
charged and so we bet bet a case of beer

1480
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:15,119
of of the others choosing the winners

1481
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:16,319
choosing and

1482
00:57:19,589 --> 00:57:17,839
i remember thinking it was about a week

1483
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:19,599
before

1484
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:23,040
new year's 2000 and i had a chance to

1485
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:25,520
meet tom and gary down at david so

1486
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:27,200
man it took some doing i'll tell you

1487
00:57:31,589 --> 00:57:29,680
it's really tough in colorado to find

1488
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:31,599
lone star beer there's just something

1489
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:34,240
about coloradans and texans it's like

1490
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:35,680
oil and water

1491
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:37,599
and i'll tell you it was rough and i

1492
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:39,119
paid a lot of money for that case but i

1493
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:40,720
brought that case down and i paid off

1494
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:44,630
and that was the last time i ever saw

1495
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,920
him i think i may have talked to him

1496
00:57:50,309 --> 00:57:48,160
once maybe twice

1497
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:50,319
after that but i'm still scratching my

1498
00:57:55,349 --> 00:57:53,040
head we we really don't know

1499
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:55,359
what happened there are some indications

1500
00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:57,040
possibly that he

1501
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:59,520
he just kind of lost it and got really

1502
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:01,520
paranoid possibly

1503
00:58:04,789 --> 00:58:02,480
and then

1504
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:04,799
there's the very strong likelihood that

1505
00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:07,200
he became a born-again christian

1506
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:09,440
um we don't know this for sure but there

1507
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,839
are some indications that that possibly

1508
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:13,920
is what happened but i don't know david

1509
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:16,000
what you know what do you think did you

1510
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:17,760
notice anything about it

1511
00:58:21,270 --> 00:58:19,920
yeah i think uh as i said in my little

1512
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:21,280
article there

1513
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:24,480
it was the perfect storm of factors uh

1514
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:26,720
but it just came so suddenly which is uh

1515
00:58:30,069 --> 00:58:28,319
you know it's one thing when you burn

1516
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:30,079
out it kind of takes a while and you

1517
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:32,079
don't burn out overnight

1518
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:34,079
but uh it just was

1519
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:36,559
black and white boom gone

1520
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:38,400
uh and it was um

1521
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,799
i don't know the paranoia uh paranoia

1522
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:43,040
could have entered into it uh the

1523
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:45,280
financial thing was just a huge huge

1524
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:47,119
factor it just felt so crippled that he

1525
00:58:50,789 --> 00:58:49,280
couldn't go to the conferences and

1526
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:50,799
had to depend on his friends for this

1527
00:58:55,109 --> 00:58:52,559
and that and

1528
00:58:58,470 --> 00:58:55,119
then you know he'd been through a

1529
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:58,480
relationship a marriage uh with christa

1530
00:59:01,030 --> 00:58:59,839
tilton

1531
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:01,040
which uh

1532
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:02,720
left him a little beat up i guess you

1533
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:06,240
could say uh he was emotionally fragile

1534
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:08,559
in some ways i think you know

1535
00:59:12,150 --> 00:59:09,920
i just have to

1536
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,160
characterize it that way

1537
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:14,559
that he wasn't uh

1538
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:16,960
you know completely worldly in the realm

1539
00:59:21,430 --> 00:59:19,440
of human relationships and especially

1540
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:21,440
romantic relationships as far as i know

1541
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,440
christa was his first ever romantic

1542
00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:26,160
relationship yeah yeah tom and romance

1543
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:27,680
just don't seem to

1544
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:31,440
yeah it's kind of a ballpark but

1545
00:59:36,069 --> 00:59:34,720
yes i mean he he was uh so absorbed in

1546
00:59:38,150 --> 00:59:36,079
his work and

1547
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:38,160
he just wasn't particularly interested

1548
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,200
in in romantic type of stuff and

1549
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:42,960
he had his close friends and he valued

1550
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,119
them just like we all do but

1551
00:59:48,309 --> 00:59:47,280
that was a whole new game for him he was

1552
00:59:50,069 --> 00:59:48,319
he was

1553
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:50,079
out of his comfort zone i guess you

1554
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:53,280
could say yeah so i think all of those

1555
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:55,760
factors kind of just uh

1556
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:57,040
brought him to that point where i think

1557
01:00:01,589 --> 00:59:59,839
maybe he stopped and just said okay

1558
01:00:03,270 --> 01:00:01,599
i'm going to stop for now and try to

1559
01:00:05,349 --> 01:00:03,280
regroup myself

1560
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:05,359
and then the more time went by he found

1561
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:07,440
that he couldn't re-enter the field and

1562
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:08,880
i just got this feeling that he just

1563
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:10,960
didn't want to go for instance to a

1564
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:13,200
conference and everybody said gee what's

1565
01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:14,720
been happening tom what about what's up

1566
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:16,880
with christa how what what's up with

1567
01:00:20,069 --> 01:00:18,559
this what's up with that

1568
01:00:21,589 --> 01:00:20,079
and he didn't want to have to answer all

1569
01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:21,599
those personal questions it really made

1570
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:23,359
him uncomfortable yeah he was very

1571
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:25,760
private how did you put together his

1572
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,400
final years then or did you just you

1573
01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:30,799
learned that you died and that was it

1574
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:32,480
well yeah we've just been kind of

1575
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:35,040
piecing it together he found he went to

1576
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:37,280
work at the dollar general store which i

1577
01:00:41,589 --> 01:00:39,200
think he found humiliating

1578
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:41,599
and he just seemed to be a complete

1579
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:43,520
workaday guy

1580
01:00:47,349 --> 01:00:46,559
you know one one detail came to us from

1581
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:47,359
uh

1582
01:00:51,750 --> 01:00:50,160
his relatives there in paris texas and

1583
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:51,760
they said well

1584
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:54,799
after he died they went to his apartment

1585
01:00:58,069 --> 01:00:55,520
and

1586
01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:58,079
this desk was uh covered with letters

1587
01:01:01,910 --> 01:01:00,000
from people like me and chris for

1588
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:01,920
instance and investigators they were

1589
01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:03,359
just unopened

1590
01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:04,880
he never even bothered to open up and

1591
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:08,079
see what was in him and i thought wow

1592
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:10,079
so he just didn't want any part of it

1593
01:01:14,549 --> 01:01:12,559
after a certain point whether it just uh

1594
01:01:15,910 --> 01:01:14,559
he found it all humiliating or he didn't

1595
01:01:17,829 --> 01:01:15,920
want to answer those questions or he'd

1596
01:01:20,069 --> 01:01:17,839
come to a dead end or

1597
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:20,079
uh he realized that he couldn't afford

1598
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:23,200
to pursue this quixotic journey but i

1599
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:25,040
mean as chris and i know this is you

1600
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:27,119
know the payoffs here are not going to

1601
01:01:31,349 --> 01:01:29,440
be great the likelihood of success is

1602
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:31,359
actually fairly low

1603
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:32,640
and so you have to have some pretty

1604
01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:35,119
elaborate justifications to keep on

1605
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,599
going it's not money and it's not fame

1606
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:39,200
and it's you know to me it's personal

1607
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:41,760
curiosity is all it's eventually boiled

1608
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:44,000
down to i'm not even all that concerned

1609
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:46,079
about conveying it to the world you know

1610
01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:46,880
right

1611
01:01:50,309 --> 01:01:47,839
i just

1612
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:50,319
really would like to know personally

1613
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:52,079
by you know somebody said well we'll

1614
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:53,359
tell you the answer but you can never

1615
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:56,720
tell anybody you say okay i'll take that

1616
01:02:03,750 --> 01:01:59,200
it's not it's not not the uh you know

1617
01:02:07,030 --> 01:02:05,030
there's very few people that you can

1618
01:02:09,109 --> 01:02:07,040
really share

1619
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,119
this information with without them

1620
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:11,200
looking at you kind of strangely and you

1621
01:02:15,910 --> 01:02:13,680
know this leads us to a question that we

1622
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:15,920
have on our forum from one of our top

1623
01:02:19,670 --> 01:02:18,079
posters burnt state

1624
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:19,680
from canada

1625
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:20,559
and

1626
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:22,559
first of all he acknowledges the uh the

1627
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:24,160
tribute david he says that was a very

1628
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:25,839
heavy tribute and it's permeated with a

1629
01:02:30,150 --> 01:02:28,240
lot of sadness i have always found the

1630
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:30,160
cattle mystery to be a very disturbing

1631
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:32,640
thing there's such a brutality to it all

1632
01:02:37,270 --> 01:02:34,559
what motivated tom and all of you to

1633
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:37,280
persist in such dark spaces i imagine a

1634
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:38,960
strong sense of forty and inspiration

1635
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:40,720
and humor must have been essential

1636
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:42,319
ingredients

1637
01:02:44,789 --> 01:02:44,000
boy that's an understatement

1638
01:02:49,030 --> 01:02:44,799
yo

1639
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:49,040
heard we actually have a second radio

1640
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:51,760
show related to the power cast called

1641
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:53,760
after the power cast

1642
01:02:58,630 --> 01:02:56,079
and it's about color commentary special

1643
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:58,640
additional interviews and more and the

1644
01:03:04,270 --> 01:03:00,640
only way you can get a copy

1645
01:03:07,470 --> 01:03:04,280
is to subscribe to the powercast plus at

1646
01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:07,480
plus.thepowercast.com that's

1647
01:03:12,549 --> 01:03:09,119
plus.thepowercast.com a modest

1648
01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:12,559
subscription fee you also get a higher

1649
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:15,440
quality copy of the powercast with 41

1650
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:17,680
minutes of network ads removed it's only

1651
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:21,119
five dollars a month 50 a year 175

1652
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:22,640
for five years

1653
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:24,720
plus.powercast.com

1654
01:03:29,910 --> 01:03:27,039
don't forget if you subscribe to

1655
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:29,920
the powercast plus for a year or more to

1656
01:03:34,430 --> 01:03:31,520
get a free copy of stalking the

1657
01:03:36,069 --> 01:03:34,440
tricksters and chris o'brien

1658
01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:36,079
plus.thepowercast.com

1659
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,160
let's do our break here and we'll have

1660
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:40,559
david perkins answer with gene and chris

1661
01:03:50,950 --> 01:03:48,950
first came attack of the rockoids and it

1662
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,960
was a critically acclaimed success and

1663
01:03:54,230 --> 01:03:52,319
now there is the coming of the

1664
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:54,240
protectors a former military

1665
01:03:58,630 --> 01:03:56,480
intelligence man is contacted by a space

1666
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:58,640
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

1667
01:04:02,789 --> 01:04:01,200
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

1668
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:02,799
her distant planet are planning to

1669
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:05,039
conquer the earth this is gripping

1670
01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:07,599
science fiction of the classic kind

1671
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attack of the rockoids and the coming of

1672
01:04:13,029 --> 01:04:11,480
the protectors find out more at

1673
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rockoids.com that's

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1684
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hi john huevner from midas resources are

1685
01:04:52,789 --> 01:04:50,880
you tired of watching your hard-earned

1686
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:52,799
assets dwindle away as government

1687
01:04:56,630 --> 01:04:54,400
spending is out of hand and the federal

1688
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reserve is creating in excess of 20

1689
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:58,640
billion a week are you tired of stock

1690
01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:00,240
brokers gambling away your hard-earned

1691
01:05:04,870 --> 01:05:02,160
money is this market a set up for a

1692
01:05:06,870 --> 01:05:04,880
crash greater than 1987 too many of

1693
01:05:09,829 --> 01:05:06,880
today's policies resemble those that led

1694
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:09,839
to the collapse of 1929

1695
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:11,520
this is john huebner and that was me in

1696
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:14,160
2007 and we all know what happened when

1697
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:16,079
the subprime credit bubble burst by

1698
01:05:20,789 --> 01:05:18,640
march 2009 the dollar lost 50 percent of

1699
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:20,799
its value the entire u.s banking system

1700
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:22,799
was on the verge of collapsing like all

1701
01:05:26,630 --> 01:05:24,480
financial problems of the past is

1702
01:05:30,190 --> 01:05:26,640
history about to repeat itself call me

1703
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:32,309
1-800-686-2237 before it's too late to

1704
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:34,079
protect yourself will the oncoming

1705
01:05:39,029 --> 01:05:37,119
catastrophe take all private iras 401ks

1706
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:39,039
with it there is a way to protect your

1707
01:05:49,029 --> 01:05:41,440
hard-earned assets call me john hubner

1708
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:50,710
you constantly 1-800-686-2237 run down

1709
01:05:55,270 --> 01:05:53,280
and tired your ph level might be low and

1710
01:05:57,589 --> 01:05:55,280
your body could be full of toxins if

1711
01:05:59,589 --> 01:05:57,599
what you drink is not at a ph level of 8

1712
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or higher you are inviting bacteria and

1713
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acid to thrive in your body but there is

1714
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something you can do simply add 10 drops

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of alkavision plasma ph drops to your

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1719
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1720
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1722
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1723
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acidic waste and toxins and helping you

1724
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regain energy and vibrant health and

1725
01:06:28,710 --> 01:06:26,319
studies show viruses bacteria and toxins

1726
01:06:30,309 --> 01:06:28,720
cannot survive in an alkaline high ph

1727
01:06:32,430 --> 01:06:30,319
environment order your bottle of

1728
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:32,440
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1729
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1730
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1731
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health at alkavision.com today

1732
01:06:52,789 --> 01:06:50,720
we live in a complicated society

1733
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:52,799
stressful issues are always popping up

1734
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:54,640
have you ever been treated unfairly by

1735
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,480
someone have you ever been overcharged

1736
01:07:00,230 --> 01:06:58,240
for repair have you ever signed a

1737
01:07:01,990 --> 01:07:00,240
contract or a document worried about

1738
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:02,000
identity theft how many times have you

1739
01:07:05,349 --> 01:07:03,760
been in those unique situations where

1740
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:05,359
you just wanted to call an attorney to

1741
01:07:08,950 --> 01:07:07,200
find out if you're right or wrong or

1742
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:08,960
what your legal rights are but every

1743
01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:10,640
time you think about calling an attorney

1744
01:07:14,549 --> 01:07:12,400
what do you think about first that's

1745
01:07:16,870 --> 01:07:14,559
right who do you call and how much will

1746
01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:16,880
it cost our friends at legalshield have

1747
01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:18,799
found a solution with a nationwide

1748
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network of 6900 attorneys who average

1749
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over 19 years of experience legalshields

1750
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law firms take over 40 000 calls per

1751
01:07:29,750 --> 01:07:28,000
week helping their members for less than

1752
01:07:31,670 --> 01:07:29,760
twenty dollars per month you can have

1753
01:07:33,510 --> 01:07:31,680
access to legalshield on everything from

1754
01:07:36,109 --> 01:07:33,520
the trivial to the dramatic let

1755
01:07:39,190 --> 01:07:36,119
legalshield stand up for your rights at

1756
01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:39,200
lsprotection.com that's lsprotection.com

1757
01:07:41,589 --> 01:07:40,960
or call

1758
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:41,599
four 855

1759
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:44,160
save eight five five three four zero

1760
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:46,079
seventy two eighty three results will

1761
01:07:55,349 --> 01:07:52,870
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1762
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:55,359
comment or question about the paracast

1763
01:08:02,150 --> 01:07:58,960
send it to news at theparecast.com

1764
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:02,160
that's news at theparecast.com

1765
01:08:06,470 --> 01:08:04,000
and don't forget to visit our famous

1766
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:06,480
paracast community forums at

1767
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:11,990
so we are

1768
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:15,440
honoring the work of the late tom adams

1769
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:17,440
who kind of exited from the paranormal

1770
01:08:22,070 --> 01:08:20,080
field but 12 13 years ago

1771
01:08:23,669 --> 01:08:22,080
but did a lot of work and interacted

1772
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:23,679
with many people we had a question on

1773
01:08:27,749 --> 01:08:26,080
the table from burnt state

1774
01:08:31,349 --> 01:08:27,759
who of course is one of our very

1775
01:08:33,749 --> 01:08:31,359
frequent and prolific forum posters and

1776
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:33,759
an occasional presence on the show david

1777
01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:36,400
perkins you had a response

1778
01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:39,359
well in terms of uh what keeps us going

1779
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:41,679
in that dark space

1780
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:44,880
uh it's it's my own personal attitude

1781
01:08:49,030 --> 01:08:46,799
that whatever is behind the mutilations

1782
01:08:52,030 --> 01:08:49,040
is very significant

1783
01:08:55,030 --> 01:08:52,040
and that includes everything from

1784
01:08:57,510 --> 01:08:55,040
misperceived predator kills that creates

1785
01:08:59,910 --> 01:08:57,520
a meme that creates a

1786
01:09:01,189 --> 01:08:59,920
belief system

1787
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:01,199
all the way to

1788
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:03,279
its aliens doing it i mean there's a

1789
01:09:07,669 --> 01:09:05,520
huge spectrum there obviously but

1790
01:09:09,510 --> 01:09:07,679
whatever it is it's important that we

1791
01:09:11,910 --> 01:09:09,520
understand what it is

1792
01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:11,920
i think it's important to our future

1793
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:13,679
and this this is something that's really

1794
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:16,640
unshakable in in my mind

1795
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:18,960
that it is not insignificant

1796
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:20,880
was there much of a family there you

1797
01:09:24,789 --> 01:09:22,319
said he had a relationship that didn't

1798
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:24,799
work out but he never married

1799
01:09:29,189 --> 01:09:26,799
well they did marry uh

1800
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:29,199
i actually got to poking around recently

1801
01:09:31,990 --> 01:09:30,080
and

1802
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,000
because i was never entirely sure that

1803
01:09:36,789 --> 01:09:34,560
they had technically married

1804
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:36,799
they you know presented themselves as a

1805
01:09:41,669 --> 01:09:39,120
married couple but sure enough they did

1806
01:09:44,470 --> 01:09:41,679
get married and they didn't get divorced

1807
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:44,480
so that much we know for sure that i

1808
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:46,400
have those records

1809
01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:49,199
but he didn't have any siblings his

1810
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:51,600
mother was an invalid

1811
01:09:57,030 --> 01:09:54,480
uh she lived to be at least 100 years

1812
01:09:59,990 --> 01:09:57,040
old his mother and the last 30 years of

1813
01:10:01,430 --> 01:10:00,000
her life were in a pretty uh invalid

1814
01:10:03,350 --> 01:10:01,440
state

1815
01:10:05,990 --> 01:10:03,360
that weighed on it also that was another

1816
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:06,000
one of those perfect storm factors

1817
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:08,880
uh that must have had some effect but uh

1818
01:10:13,110 --> 01:10:10,480
he really

1819
01:10:14,149 --> 01:10:13,120
didn't have a in terms of a nuclear

1820
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:14,159
family

1821
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:17,360
much going on there uh i think you

1822
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:19,920
should mention too that because of his

1823
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:22,960
uh inability or absolute uh

1824
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:25,120
you know just refusal to drive his

1825
01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:26,800
mother literally had to drive him to

1826
01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:29,360
work every day and he would arrive early

1827
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:31,280
so that nobody saw that his mom was

1828
01:10:33,910 --> 01:10:32,800
driving him to work

1829
01:10:36,630 --> 01:10:33,920
which i always thought was kind of

1830
01:10:38,470 --> 01:10:36,640
strange yes

1831
01:10:41,350 --> 01:10:38,480
there that's the idiosyncrasies that i'm

1832
01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:41,360
talking about but uh

1833
01:10:47,990 --> 01:10:44,159
which we will probably never be able to

1834
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:49,830
what we know is what he produced and

1835
01:10:54,790 --> 01:10:51,760
what he gave us and what he meant to us

1836
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:54,800
and the role that he played in ufology

1837
01:11:01,350 --> 01:10:57,600
mutology if you want to call it that

1838
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:01,360
this was his family basically

1839
01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:03,760
let's begin to talk here folks

1840
01:11:07,270 --> 01:11:06,159
more about the cases he worked on with

1841
01:11:09,030 --> 01:11:07,280
you guys

1842
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:09,040
because that's where he'll be remembered

1843
01:11:13,189 --> 01:11:11,040
more so than

1844
01:11:14,870 --> 01:11:13,199
his personality and the quirks and all

1845
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:14,880
that stuff

1846
01:11:17,830 --> 01:11:16,080
so

1847
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:17,840
long and short of it and i'll ask you

1848
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:19,920
david perkins's question what do you

1849
01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:20,719
think

1850
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:23,360
is the most significant case

1851
01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:24,880
he was involved in

1852
01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:27,280
in terms of mutilations uh

1853
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:29,120
he was involved in a lot of cases he

1854
01:11:33,110 --> 01:11:31,840
branched out into all kinds of stuff

1855
01:11:35,950 --> 01:11:33,120
uh

1856
01:11:37,830 --> 01:11:35,960
i mean into abduction research

1857
01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:37,840
cryptozoology

1858
01:11:43,430 --> 01:11:40,880
ufology obviously huge

1859
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:43,440
but i i was just thinking uh the

1860
01:11:47,189 --> 01:11:45,600
piece that i covered in my my little

1861
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:47,199
obituary there

1862
01:11:51,910 --> 01:11:49,840
uh which i was just looking it up and

1863
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:51,920
that was uh

1864
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:55,040
april 23rd 1978

1865
01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:57,120
dulce new mexico which is

1866
01:12:01,590 --> 01:11:59,679
today is the anniversary of that event

1867
01:12:03,270 --> 01:12:01,600
by the first time i ever i went out with

1868
01:12:06,470 --> 01:12:03,280
him and gary

1869
01:12:08,630 --> 01:12:06,480
and to look at a mutilated cow

1870
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:08,640
that was um

1871
01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:10,800
that was very interesting uh we hooked

1872
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:13,040
up with state policeman gabe valdez and

1873
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:15,199
my wife carrie was there

1874
01:12:18,630 --> 01:12:16,960
uh as a matter of fact the

1875
01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:18,640
synchronicities of it

1876
01:12:23,510 --> 01:12:20,480
were very peculiar because we were all

1877
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:23,520
up at pearl uh lewis's cabin

1878
01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:24,800
at the time

1879
01:12:27,510 --> 01:12:26,159
just having another one of our little

1880
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:27,520
get-togethers

1881
01:12:31,830 --> 01:12:29,600
and we were all just ready to leave and

1882
01:12:34,870 --> 01:12:31,840
go our different ways and

1883
01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:34,880
phone rings at burles it's kate valdez

1884
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:36,320
you know where those guys are if they're

1885
01:12:39,030 --> 01:12:38,320
around i got to come see this we were

1886
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:39,040
just

1887
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:40,640
minutes from leaving it would have been

1888
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:43,040
impossible to pull back together

1889
01:12:45,830 --> 01:12:44,880
uh so i thought wow this is kind of

1890
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,840
interesting

1891
01:12:48,550 --> 01:12:47,679
it's almost like it's being done for us

1892
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:48,560
you know

1893
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:49,679
so we all

1894
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:51,360
piled and thang

1895
01:12:55,830 --> 01:12:53,760
and drove down to dulce

1896
01:12:57,189 --> 01:12:55,840
and went out and looked at this animal

1897
01:12:59,590 --> 01:12:57,199
and

1898
01:13:01,910 --> 01:12:59,600
uh it was um

1899
01:13:03,910 --> 01:13:01,920
it was just a phenomenal thing to see we

1900
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:03,920
all explored it together and discussed

1901
01:13:07,990 --> 01:13:05,440
it with gabe and

1902
01:13:10,310 --> 01:13:08,000
was one of the those cases where

1903
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:10,320
something unusual had happened i mean

1904
01:13:14,630 --> 01:13:12,800
whatever it was it was very unusual

1905
01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:14,640
and gabe was all excited about what he

1906
01:13:18,550 --> 01:13:16,960
called the clamp marks on the back hind

1907
01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:18,560
legs of this animal

1908
01:13:21,590 --> 01:13:19,840
the animal looked like it had been

1909
01:13:23,350 --> 01:13:21,600
dropped little thousand feet or

1910
01:13:25,590 --> 01:13:23,360
something it was just crumpled its back

1911
01:13:27,270 --> 01:13:25,600
was broken its legs were broken its

1912
01:13:28,630 --> 01:13:27,280
orange was driven back into the side of

1913
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:28,640
its head

1914
01:13:34,390 --> 01:13:30,400
uh and

1915
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:34,400
boy i mean something of terrific force

1916
01:13:38,870 --> 01:13:37,199
had uh interacted with that animal man

1917
01:13:41,189 --> 01:13:38,880
it must have been a pissed off coyote

1918
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:41,199
boy yeah really man

1919
01:13:44,709 --> 01:13:43,199
and uh then gabe took us over to the

1920
01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:44,719
road it was one of those hard packed

1921
01:13:49,510 --> 01:13:46,960
adobe new mexico roads and there were

1922
01:13:52,870 --> 01:13:49,520
these three pod marks he called them

1923
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:52,880
indented deep into that really hard soil

1924
01:13:55,990 --> 01:13:54,880
like something very heavy had set down

1925
01:13:57,270 --> 01:13:56,000
there

1926
01:13:58,870 --> 01:13:57,280
and uh

1927
01:14:01,750 --> 01:13:58,880
so it had all of those those

1928
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:01,760
characteristics going for it and uh

1929
01:14:06,470 --> 01:14:04,080
and i remember thinking wow this is

1930
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:06,480
definitely not a predator whatever it is

1931
01:14:10,630 --> 01:14:08,719
i don't know but this is

1932
01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:10,640
it would be hard to come up with any

1933
01:14:14,790 --> 01:14:13,360
kind of rational logical

1934
01:14:15,990 --> 01:14:14,800
explanation for what had happened to

1935
01:14:17,990 --> 01:14:16,000
that animal

1936
01:14:20,310 --> 01:14:18,000
so i mean that that whole scene is just

1937
01:14:22,070 --> 01:14:20,320
burned into my brain i'll never forget

1938
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:22,080
that day and uh

1939
01:14:26,630 --> 01:14:24,880
and we really bonded all of us that day

1940
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:26,640
i think and we realized boy we're

1941
01:14:29,590 --> 01:14:28,239
dealing with something that's very

1942
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:29,600
strange

1943
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:31,360
then it should be the 40th anniversary

1944
01:14:35,590 --> 01:14:33,520
of that uh that trip

1945
01:14:37,510 --> 01:14:35,600
yeah geez uh

1946
01:14:39,830 --> 01:14:37,520
it was we didn't and tom and i didn't

1947
01:14:42,630 --> 01:14:39,840
actually go out together and gary and

1948
01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:42,640
look at that many what we call fresh

1949
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:43,840
mutes

1950
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:45,520
i mean it's just you know we live so far

1951
01:14:48,790 --> 01:14:47,840
apart and uh

1952
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:48,800
so

1953
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:51,440
much of what tom did was was basically

1954
01:14:55,590 --> 01:14:53,360
calling sheriffs and getting the

1955
01:14:57,510 --> 01:14:55,600
photographs and getting the vets reports

1956
01:14:59,430 --> 01:14:57,520
and rooting all that stuff out and

1957
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:59,440
putting it together and publishing it

1958
01:15:02,149 --> 01:15:00,960
and moving on

1959
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:02,159
so

1960
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:04,400
yeah it was a shame that tom never

1961
01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:06,400
became computer savvy

1962
01:15:10,790 --> 01:15:09,040
because he

1963
01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:10,800
before the internet

1964
01:15:14,550 --> 01:15:12,320
was

1965
01:15:15,750 --> 01:15:14,560
you know beyond amazing in terms of a

1966
01:15:17,030 --> 01:15:15,760
networker

1967
01:15:18,630 --> 01:15:17,040
he

1968
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:18,640
put everybody in touch with everybody

1969
01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:21,600
else he had a huge network of of law

1970
01:15:25,110 --> 01:15:23,280
enforcement and ranchers that he would

1971
01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:25,120
constantly be keeping them up up to

1972
01:15:29,830 --> 01:15:27,760
speed on what else was going on

1973
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:29,840
uh he was kind of the clearinghouse he

1974
01:15:33,030 --> 01:15:31,280
was the central

1975
01:15:34,870 --> 01:15:33,040
sort of hub

1976
01:15:37,110 --> 01:15:34,880
for people especially law enforcement

1977
01:15:39,189 --> 01:15:37,120
the ranching community to dovetail their

1978
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:39,199
efforts and a lot of this went through

1979
01:15:43,510 --> 01:15:42,000
tom it was uh very fascinating

1980
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:43,520
going through all those stigmata

1981
01:15:48,950 --> 01:15:46,800
magazines and seeing how many people

1982
01:15:50,470 --> 01:15:48,960
were in touch with him and and how

1983
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:50,480
important he was

1984
01:15:55,510 --> 01:15:52,400
in keeping the law enforcement community

1985
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:55,520
up to speed on ok on other cases and

1986
01:15:59,110 --> 01:15:56,960
keeping the ranching community up to

1987
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:59,120
speed and telling them who to go to who

1988
01:16:02,790 --> 01:16:00,239
to talk to

1989
01:16:04,390 --> 01:16:02,800
and uh i i felt that that was probably

1990
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:04,400
one of the most

1991
01:16:07,350 --> 01:16:05,360
uh

1992
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:07,360
amazing jobs of networking that i've

1993
01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:09,840
seen uh before or after the internet i

1994
01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:12,880
mean the guy really was dazzling with

1995
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:15,040
his ability to put people in touch with

1996
01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:16,960
one another and to keep everybody

1997
01:16:23,430 --> 01:16:18,080
informed

1998
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:23,440
work of tom adams our next segment with

1999
01:16:32,270 --> 01:16:26,000
david perkins and with gene and with

2000
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:37,110
[Music]

2001
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:40,229
a little right a little left but always

2002
01:16:47,270 --> 01:16:42,080
independent-minded

2003
01:16:49,110 --> 01:16:47,280
the genesis communications network g c n

2004
01:16:51,510 --> 01:16:49,120
graphic converter is the image

2005
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2006
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2007
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control of all your files want to view

2008
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the images of a folder drag it into

2009
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2010
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2011
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could use it for slideshows you could

2012
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use it to import images from digital

2013
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2014
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2015
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2016
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2017
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2018
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2019
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2020
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billion dollar market and did you know

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that over 65 000 businesses now accept

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2079
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about it grab a pencil and jot down this

2080
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2081
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2082
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2094
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2095
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2096
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2097
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2098
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2099
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2100
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:44,840
my tv

2101
01:20:59,110 --> 01:20:56,630
hey this is marie d jones the author of

2102
01:21:01,750 --> 01:20:59,120
this book is from the future

2103
01:21:09,830 --> 01:21:01,760
and you are listening to the paracast

2104
01:21:16,229 --> 01:21:12,550
we continue with our retrospective of

2105
01:21:18,229 --> 01:21:16,239
tom adams who passed away last year but

2106
01:21:20,310 --> 01:21:18,239
had worked in the ufo and paranormal

2107
01:21:21,910 --> 01:21:20,320
fields for several decades and the

2108
01:21:23,430 --> 01:21:21,920
people who knew him at least two of

2109
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:23,440
those people are with us of course our

2110
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:26,560
own chris o'brien and david perkins

2111
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:28,239
and the thing that chris was talking

2112
01:21:33,270 --> 01:21:30,560
about here was the remarkable ability of

2113
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:33,280
tom adams to network with people you

2114
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:34,719
know his biggest function kind of the

2115
01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:37,360
go-to person you want to know something

2116
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:38,400
about

2117
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:40,800
amazing strange or frightening events

2118
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:42,880
you go to tom and he'd hook you up with

2119
01:21:46,470 --> 01:21:44,159
other people

2120
01:21:48,630 --> 01:21:46,480
and he did this without being

2121
01:21:50,070 --> 01:21:48,640
a digital expert putting it all on

2122
01:21:51,430 --> 01:21:50,080
computer what do you do just write

2123
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,440
things down

2124
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:53,760
yeah yeah he was a consummate consummate

2125
01:21:57,350 --> 01:21:55,360
note taker

2126
01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:57,360
again he did produce a publication

2127
01:22:00,229 --> 01:21:59,040
called stigmata

2128
01:22:03,189 --> 01:22:00,239
which was a

2129
01:22:05,430 --> 01:22:03,199
usually a monthly bi-monthly publication

2130
01:22:06,790 --> 01:22:05,440
that was a roundup of all the prior

2131
01:22:08,629 --> 01:22:06,800
months cases

2132
01:22:10,390 --> 01:22:08,639
and the state of um

2133
01:22:15,189 --> 01:22:10,400
you know

2134
01:22:15,990 --> 01:22:15,199
older cases where their investigations

2135
01:22:17,590 --> 01:22:16,000
uh

2136
01:22:19,750 --> 01:22:17,600
you know were

2137
01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:19,760
he would give updates on on older cases

2138
01:22:24,070 --> 01:22:21,600
and and and what we were finding out

2139
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:24,080
from pathology reports from law

2140
01:22:29,590 --> 01:22:27,120
enforcement uh going out and and digging

2141
01:22:31,350 --> 01:22:29,600
up other cases it was it was like a

2142
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:31,360
giant jigsaw puzzle really that was all

2143
01:22:35,590 --> 01:22:33,360
ongoing and

2144
01:22:37,510 --> 01:22:35,600
the stigmata was an absolute invaluable

2145
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:37,520
reference for me

2146
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:39,840
putting together my timeline

2147
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:41,679
along with david's help in stocking the

2148
01:22:47,189 --> 01:22:43,920
herd the whole section on the 70s and

2149
01:22:49,350 --> 01:22:47,199
80s relies heavily on tom's work and and

2150
01:22:51,350 --> 01:22:49,360
you know i do stand on the shoulders of

2151
01:22:52,950 --> 01:22:51,360
giants as i've always said

2152
01:22:55,510 --> 01:22:52,960
i could not have done this without

2153
01:22:57,669 --> 01:22:55,520
david's help and without tom's help and

2154
01:23:00,629 --> 01:22:57,679
early on linda was very instrumental in

2155
01:23:02,149 --> 01:23:00,639
my process as well she really uh trained

2156
01:23:04,070 --> 01:23:02,159
me over the phone how to properly

2157
01:23:04,870 --> 01:23:04,080
interview people gave me all sorts of

2158
01:23:06,629 --> 01:23:04,880
really

2159
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:06,639
sage advice on

2160
01:23:09,189 --> 01:23:08,560
uh particular interviewing techniques

2161
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:09,199
and

2162
01:23:14,149 --> 01:23:11,840
you know the manner sort of the bedside

2163
01:23:15,910 --> 01:23:14,159
manner that one one should develop um

2164
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:15,920
and i think i've i've taken all that

2165
01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:17,520
information to heart and i i think i've

2166
01:23:21,270 --> 01:23:19,440
turned into a pretty darn good uh

2167
01:23:23,189 --> 01:23:21,280
interviewer for people that have

2168
01:23:25,350 --> 01:23:23,199
undergone uh you know sometimes

2169
01:23:27,830 --> 01:23:25,360
life-changing experiences and

2170
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:27,840
and often frightening experiences uh one

2171
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:28,639
thing

2172
01:23:32,629 --> 01:23:30,880
that i must underscore here and and it

2173
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:32,639
refers back to bernie state's question

2174
01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:35,760
about about the darkness uh

2175
01:23:38,870 --> 01:23:36,960
that

2176
01:23:41,830 --> 01:23:38,880
permeates this particular subject this

2177
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:41,840
is not for for everybody by any stretch

2178
01:23:44,629 --> 01:23:42,480
and

2179
01:23:46,950 --> 01:23:44,639
anybody who does get involved in this

2180
01:23:48,550 --> 01:23:46,960
at one point or another is going to

2181
01:23:51,350 --> 01:23:48,560
start to get paranoid

2182
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:51,360
i think tom's paranoia i think echoed my

2183
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:55,120
own back in late 98 and early 99 when i

2184
01:23:57,910 --> 01:23:56,960
had some run-ins with some you know

2185
01:23:59,430 --> 01:23:57,920
strange

2186
01:24:00,790 --> 01:23:59,440
characters and

2187
01:24:03,189 --> 01:24:00,800
you know as soon as you start digging

2188
01:24:04,709 --> 01:24:03,199
into uh government secrets then that's

2189
01:24:07,350 --> 01:24:04,719
that's when you should start getting

2190
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:07,360
paranoid chris i want to break in here

2191
01:24:11,350 --> 01:24:09,760
because okay you mentioned run-ins with

2192
01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:11,360
strange characters

2193
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:14,880
yeah okay let's tell the tale here

2194
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:16,719
well i've mentioned it on the pear cast

2195
01:24:20,390 --> 01:24:18,960
on number of occasions where um i wasn't

2196
01:24:22,470 --> 01:24:20,400
supposed to be home i was supposed to be

2197
01:24:24,390 --> 01:24:22,480
on the way to denver bringing

2198
01:24:26,149 --> 01:24:24,400
my girlfriend isadora's daughter to her

2199
01:24:28,470 --> 01:24:26,159
dad's is the door was away at a

2200
01:24:30,550 --> 01:24:28,480
conference in grand junction

2201
01:24:33,189 --> 01:24:30,560
somebody sawed my clutch

2202
01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:33,199
pedal pad off or it

2203
01:24:36,629 --> 01:24:34,800
it didn't look broken off it looked like

2204
01:24:37,830 --> 01:24:36,639
it had been sawed with a hacksaw

2205
01:24:39,110 --> 01:24:37,840
and i couldn't drive all the way to

2206
01:24:40,149 --> 01:24:39,120
denver with a

2207
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:40,159
you know

2208
01:24:44,310 --> 01:24:42,480
an arm of a clutch coming out of the

2209
01:24:46,149 --> 01:24:44,320
floor with no pad on it it would have

2210
01:24:48,550 --> 01:24:46,159
you know gone right through my my work

2211
01:24:49,830 --> 01:24:48,560
boots let alone sneakers so i ended up

2212
01:24:51,270 --> 01:24:49,840
having to leave my

2213
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:51,280
my jeep

2214
01:24:54,550 --> 01:24:53,120
parked away from the house and got a

2215
01:24:55,910 --> 01:24:54,560
ride to the house there were no cars in

2216
01:24:57,669 --> 01:24:55,920
the driveway and that night about three

2217
01:24:59,750 --> 01:24:57,679
in the morning four guys

2218
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:59,760
waltzed into the house talking full

2219
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:00,719
voice

2220
01:25:03,430 --> 01:25:02,080
uh right on the other side of the

2221
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:03,440
bedroom door i heard him going through

2222
01:25:06,149 --> 01:25:05,280
my file cabinets taking pictures off the

2223
01:25:08,629 --> 01:25:06,159
wall

2224
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:08,639
uh one of them went upstairs and checked

2225
01:25:12,070 --> 01:25:10,800
the upstairs out and brisa

2226
01:25:13,510 --> 01:25:12,080
normally would sleep in the bottom of

2227
01:25:15,510 --> 01:25:13,520
the two bunk beds but that night she was

2228
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:15,520
in the top bunk and she hid under the

2229
01:25:19,430 --> 01:25:17,440
covers and kind of peeked out and she

2230
01:25:21,430 --> 01:25:19,440
could see something silhouetted that

2231
01:25:23,110 --> 01:25:21,440
appeared to be on the guy's

2232
01:25:25,830 --> 01:25:23,120
face like night vision goggles or

2233
01:25:28,310 --> 01:25:25,840
something and so she just lay very still

2234
01:25:29,350 --> 01:25:28,320
and at one point it it just got so

2235
01:25:31,669 --> 01:25:29,360
freaky

2236
01:25:33,350 --> 01:25:31,679
after about 10 minutes maybe

2237
01:25:36,310 --> 01:25:33,360
it seemed longer but i think it was only

2238
01:25:37,910 --> 01:25:36,320
about 10 minutes i kind of put on a fake

2239
01:25:40,950 --> 01:25:37,920
sleepy voice and said

2240
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:40,960
oh honey is that you complete silence

2241
01:25:44,629 --> 01:25:42,719
and wham they just zipped out of the

2242
01:25:47,430 --> 01:25:44,639
house and i remember tom was was a

2243
01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:47,440
little bit nervous about that and

2244
01:25:50,709 --> 01:25:48,639
you know at the time i'd been looking

2245
01:25:52,390 --> 01:25:50,719
into the underground base scenario

2246
01:25:55,750 --> 01:25:52,400
as it may exist along the border with

2247
01:25:58,310 --> 01:25:55,760
colorado new mexico a a very

2248
01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:58,320
good source uh who claimed he and a

2249
01:26:02,229 --> 01:26:01,040
group that he was belonged to had had

2250
01:26:03,669 --> 01:26:02,239
found the entrance to one of these

2251
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:03,679
facilities i was getting ready to meet

2252
01:26:07,990 --> 01:26:06,239
the guy and and i got visited by the man

2253
01:26:09,990 --> 01:26:08,000
in beige i've told that story a number

2254
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:10,000
of times on the prayer cast

2255
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:11,840
director from the institute of social

2256
01:26:16,790 --> 01:26:14,800
architecture i still have his card

2257
01:26:19,030 --> 01:26:16,800
k street in dc

2258
01:26:21,189 --> 01:26:19,040
when people like this start turning up

2259
01:26:23,590 --> 01:26:21,199
you know that i think was a red flag in

2260
01:26:26,430 --> 01:26:23,600
tom's mind and i remember that he

2261
01:26:28,870 --> 01:26:26,440
he began to seem a little bit more

2262
01:26:31,189 --> 01:26:28,880
conspiratorial a little bit more uh you

2263
01:26:32,390 --> 01:26:31,199
know a little paranoia i think tinged

2264
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:32,400
concern

2265
01:26:36,390 --> 01:26:34,159
you know he thought his phone

2266
01:26:38,229 --> 01:26:36,400
was being monitored um there was some

2267
01:26:39,830 --> 01:26:38,239
talk about possibly mail

2268
01:26:40,629 --> 01:26:39,840
being intercepted

2269
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:40,639
so

2270
01:26:45,510 --> 01:26:42,719
i i think that would may have been about

2271
01:26:49,110 --> 01:26:45,520
the beginning of the downslide uh into

2272
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:49,120
99 2000 uh i i did notice a definite

2273
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:51,360
change around the end of 98 at the

2274
01:26:54,950 --> 01:26:54,000
beginning of 99. did you feel then that

2275
01:26:56,149 --> 01:26:54,960
maybe

2276
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:56,159
he was

2277
01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:59,040
being harassed by one or more of these

2278
01:27:01,669 --> 01:27:00,000
people

2279
01:27:03,669 --> 01:27:01,679
oh that's a tough one

2280
01:27:06,790 --> 01:27:03,679
even if he had i doubt he would have

2281
01:27:08,149 --> 01:27:06,800
said anything uh but possibly

2282
01:27:10,310 --> 01:27:08,159
well what do you think david over all

2283
01:27:11,830 --> 01:27:10,320
the years that you knew him did tom ever

2284
01:27:12,950 --> 01:27:11,840
indicate that he felt that he was under

2285
01:27:15,750 --> 01:27:12,960
any sort of

2286
01:27:16,470 --> 01:27:15,760
you know overt uh surveillance let's say

2287
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:16,480
or

2288
01:27:19,990 --> 01:27:17,520
did he ever

2289
01:27:21,270 --> 01:27:20,000
kind of dive into the realm of paranoia

2290
01:27:22,310 --> 01:27:21,280
with you

2291
01:27:24,390 --> 01:27:22,320
well

2292
01:27:26,310 --> 01:27:24,400
it's a hard one uh

2293
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:26,320
like you say he didn't want to give that

2294
01:27:30,149 --> 01:27:28,000
too much play

2295
01:27:32,709 --> 01:27:30,159
i think it was a general assumption on

2296
01:27:35,110 --> 01:27:32,719
our parts at that time that our phones

2297
01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:35,120
were monitored uh we just sort of went

2298
01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:36,960
on that assumption i'm not quite sure

2299
01:27:40,870 --> 01:27:39,280
why but it's just you know like you're

2300
01:27:43,830 --> 01:27:40,880
describing the

2301
01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:43,840
feeling of that that period and uh

2302
01:27:48,070 --> 01:27:45,520
you know you're talking about

2303
01:27:50,629 --> 01:27:48,080
you know files and this and that and i

2304
01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:50,639
i had uh some of my files just

2305
01:27:54,709 --> 01:27:52,960
disappeared you know at the house in

2306
01:27:56,950 --> 01:27:54,719
colorado which

2307
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:56,960
i thought well obviously i misplaced

2308
01:28:00,870 --> 01:27:59,280
them but i didn't and i know i didn't

2309
01:28:02,550 --> 01:28:00,880
they're gone

2310
01:28:04,629 --> 01:28:02,560
and you know there are no characters

2311
01:28:06,390 --> 01:28:04,639
involved but there again you could say

2312
01:28:08,470 --> 01:28:06,400
well you know you misplaced them you

2313
01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:08,480
just think that but you know there was a

2314
01:28:13,270 --> 01:28:10,800
certain pattern to that and now

2315
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:13,280
there was a certain uh

2316
01:28:17,270 --> 01:28:15,360
i don't know there was a paranoia i i

2317
01:28:18,870 --> 01:28:17,280
think i told you the story i don't think

2318
01:28:21,110 --> 01:28:18,880
i've ever told it

2319
01:28:23,189 --> 01:28:21,120
about uh my mother

2320
01:28:25,110 --> 01:28:23,199
and uh it was right at the time when i

2321
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:25,120
was filing just massive freedom of

2322
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:27,760
information act

2323
01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:30,080
and just talking after everything you

2324
01:28:34,189 --> 01:28:31,840
know military bases i was really

2325
01:28:37,669 --> 01:28:34,199
interested in the 1975

2326
01:28:41,350 --> 01:28:37,679
overflights of uh ufos over the northern

2327
01:28:42,629 --> 01:28:41,360
tier of you know nuclear bases basically

2328
01:28:44,870 --> 01:28:42,639
all the way from

2329
01:28:45,750 --> 01:28:44,880
malmstrom to

2330
01:28:47,590 --> 01:28:45,760
you know

2331
01:28:49,669 --> 01:28:47,600
loring in maine

2332
01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:49,679
anyway i was really going after it with

2333
01:28:53,750 --> 01:28:52,080
trying to get government documents

2334
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:53,760
around this time

2335
01:28:58,070 --> 01:28:56,000
my mother said called up and said what

2336
01:28:59,830 --> 01:28:58,080
are you doing and i said well i'm

2337
01:29:01,510 --> 01:28:59,840
working on this and

2338
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:01,520
she said well you know

2339
01:29:05,510 --> 01:29:03,280
these two guys came to my house she

2340
01:29:06,709 --> 01:29:05,520
lived in florida she was a widow

2341
01:29:08,709 --> 01:29:06,719
and uh

2342
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:08,719
they identified themselves as being from

2343
01:29:12,310 --> 01:29:10,800
the office air force officers special

2344
01:29:14,550 --> 01:29:12,320
investigation

2345
01:29:16,310 --> 01:29:14,560
and uh they said you know where your son

2346
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:16,320
is and she went oh no i haven't heard

2347
01:29:19,910 --> 01:29:17,920
from a long time

2348
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:19,920
i mean you can imagine what she would be

2349
01:29:25,270 --> 01:29:22,320
thinking he's like what is this

2350
01:29:26,950 --> 01:29:25,280
uh so they said well we would really

2351
01:29:28,070 --> 01:29:26,960
like to find your son and talk to him

2352
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:28,080
and

2353
01:29:30,709 --> 01:29:29,040
uh

2354
01:29:32,149 --> 01:29:30,719
she said why and

2355
01:29:34,229 --> 01:29:32,159
they said he's

2356
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:34,239
i think of something i can't come up

2357
01:29:36,950 --> 01:29:35,520
with the exact quote it was something

2358
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:36,960
like he's

2359
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:39,120
tampering in affairs of national

2360
01:29:42,550 --> 01:29:40,560
security

2361
01:29:44,229 --> 01:29:42,560
and she said what do you mean well

2362
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:44,239
that's all we'll tell you

2363
01:29:48,629 --> 01:29:46,560
and they knew damn well where i was if

2364
01:29:49,510 --> 01:29:48,639
this you know if they wanted to talk to

2365
01:29:54,149 --> 01:29:49,520
me

2366
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:54,159
you know kind of an odd intimidation you

2367
01:29:57,669 --> 01:29:55,520
go to somebody yeah really kind of

2368
01:29:59,910 --> 01:29:57,679
backhanded let me ask you a question

2369
01:30:00,870 --> 01:29:59,920
here quickly do you think david that

2370
01:30:03,830 --> 01:30:00,880
these

2371
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:03,840
were really national security types or

2372
01:30:10,229 --> 01:30:07,760
other people pretending to be what what

2373
01:30:12,470 --> 01:30:10,239
the question gene good question

2374
01:30:14,470 --> 01:30:12,480
but if if they were these other people

2375
01:30:15,990 --> 01:30:14,480
pretending uh

2376
01:30:18,070 --> 01:30:16,000
yeah then

2377
01:30:20,550 --> 01:30:18,080
you know that starts us off on a whole

2378
01:30:22,629 --> 01:30:20,560
other track why would they be doing that

2379
01:30:24,709 --> 01:30:22,639
that seems to be part and parcel of what

2380
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:24,719
happens in these fields occasionally

2381
01:30:29,420 --> 01:30:26,960
david perkins with gina and chris you're

2382
01:30:37,590 --> 01:30:29,430
in the very cast

2383
01:30:42,550 --> 01:30:39,669
independently leading the way for the

2384
01:30:45,390 --> 01:30:42,560
nation compelling talk for every

2385
01:30:47,270 --> 01:30:45,400
political persuasion we are

2386
01:30:49,030 --> 01:30:47,280
gcn

2387
01:30:51,110 --> 01:30:49,040
first game attack of the rockoids and it

2388
01:30:52,390 --> 01:30:51,120
was a critically acclaimed success and

2389
01:30:54,310 --> 01:30:52,400
now there is the coming of the

2390
01:30:56,550 --> 01:30:54,320
protectors a former military

2391
01:30:58,709 --> 01:30:56,560
intelligence man is contacted by a space

2392
01:31:01,350 --> 01:30:58,719
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

2393
01:31:02,870 --> 01:31:01,360
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

2394
01:31:05,110 --> 01:31:02,880
our distant planet are planning to

2395
01:31:07,669 --> 01:31:05,120
conquer the earth this is gripping

2396
01:31:09,510 --> 01:31:07,679
science fiction of the classic kind

2397
01:31:11,550 --> 01:31:09,520
attack of the rochoids and the coming of

2398
01:31:15,030 --> 01:31:11,560
the protectors find out more at

2399
01:31:16,870 --> 01:31:15,040
rockoids.com that's rockoids

2400
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:16,880
d s r-o-c-k-o-i-d-s com

2401
01:31:21,750 --> 01:31:18,719
so here's what happened i was placing an

2402
01:31:23,990 --> 01:31:21,760
order online the site went down it took

2403
01:31:25,750 --> 01:31:24,000
hours before it returned but i'd already

2404
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placed the order with another company if

2405
01:31:29,590 --> 01:31:27,760
your site goes down you could lose

2406
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2407
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personal site you'll want to know it's

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2409
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iweb your site is hosted on one of the

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2411
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2430
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2440
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2460
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2461
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2462
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2463
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2464
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like many 1-877-345-7645 in a fast-paced

2466
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2467
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2468
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2469
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2470
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2471
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2472
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2480
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2482
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2485
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2486
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[Music]

2487
01:34:55,910 --> 01:34:45,280
that's

2488
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:58,390
this is jacques valley you're listening

2489
01:35:12,830 --> 01:35:00,400
to the paracast

2490
01:35:18,629 --> 01:35:15,990
radio we're looking into not just the

2491
01:35:20,229 --> 01:35:18,639
life of tom adams but

2492
01:35:22,149 --> 01:35:20,239
the things that happen to the people who

2493
01:35:23,189 --> 01:35:22,159
work with him such as her own chris

2494
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:23,199
o'brien

2495
01:35:27,669 --> 01:35:24,880
and of course david perkins and i was

2496
01:35:29,510 --> 01:35:27,679
asking david the fact that

2497
01:35:31,430 --> 01:35:29,520
there were encounters with so-called

2498
01:35:33,430 --> 01:35:31,440
government types were these really

2499
01:35:35,430 --> 01:35:33,440
government types that's the question i

2500
01:35:36,950 --> 01:35:35,440
raised this is a good question but that

2501
01:35:38,229 --> 01:35:36,960
there again

2502
01:35:40,470 --> 01:35:38,239
if they weren't

2503
01:35:43,350 --> 01:35:40,480
uh who were they and what was the agenda

2504
01:35:45,990 --> 01:35:43,360
there it was obviously to intimidate

2505
01:35:47,910 --> 01:35:46,000
me in some way through my poor widowed

2506
01:35:49,830 --> 01:35:47,920
mother down there in florida

2507
01:35:52,870 --> 01:35:49,840
to back off but you know just to

2508
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:52,880
interject this uh around that same time

2509
01:35:58,629 --> 01:35:56,480
in florida there was a rash of clowns

2510
01:35:59,430 --> 01:35:58,639
coming to people's doors right have you

2511
01:36:01,270 --> 01:35:59,440
you know

2512
01:36:02,310 --> 01:36:01,280
if you're a 40 and you're familiar with

2513
01:36:05,030 --> 01:36:02,320
the

2514
01:36:06,470 --> 01:36:05,040
evil clown scenarios would you explain

2515
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:06,480
this to our listeners because we're

2516
01:36:09,990 --> 01:36:08,159
hitting something here that doesn't get

2517
01:36:12,790 --> 01:36:10,000
widely reported outside of our little

2518
01:36:14,470 --> 01:36:12,800
circle well i i'm not sure it's entirely

2519
01:36:17,189 --> 01:36:14,480
significant but uh

2520
01:36:19,669 --> 01:36:17,199
if in forty and lore there's there's a

2521
01:36:22,470 --> 01:36:19,679
fair body of work of uh

2522
01:36:24,470 --> 01:36:22,480
so-called evil clowns

2523
01:36:26,790 --> 01:36:24,480
clowns that do strange things i mean

2524
01:36:28,149 --> 01:36:26,800
there's even was a rash of them i can't

2525
01:36:29,669 --> 01:36:28,159
remember where it was i think it was

2526
01:36:31,030 --> 01:36:29,679
california

2527
01:36:33,430 --> 01:36:31,040
in the last year or something these

2528
01:36:34,950 --> 01:36:33,440
clowns and apparently they explained

2529
01:36:37,430 --> 01:36:34,960
that it was some sort of

2530
01:36:39,750 --> 01:36:37,440
performance art project by somebody or

2531
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:39,760
other but uh if you'll go on the

2532
01:36:43,669 --> 01:36:42,080
internet google evil clowns you'll

2533
01:36:46,149 --> 01:36:43,679
you'll get a good dose of that there's

2534
01:36:48,550 --> 01:36:46,159
some photos there that are very strange

2535
01:36:51,990 --> 01:36:48,560
but over the years these uh

2536
01:36:54,229 --> 01:36:52,000
insane clown posses or whatever have uh

2537
01:36:56,629 --> 01:36:54,239
they show up they do weird things they

2538
01:36:59,669 --> 01:36:56,639
they're in line with a lot of uh

2539
01:37:02,470 --> 01:36:59,679
floridian type phenomena over you know

2540
01:37:05,590 --> 01:37:02,480
creatures odd people doing odd things

2541
01:37:07,510 --> 01:37:05,600
but this is just one genre of the clowns

2542
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:07,520
i was just looking at wikipedia evil

2543
01:37:11,109 --> 01:37:08,719
clown

2544
01:37:14,709 --> 01:37:11,119
and they talk about the modern archetype

2545
01:37:16,470 --> 01:37:14,719
of the evil clown has unclear origins

2546
01:37:20,390 --> 01:37:16,480
the stock character appeared

2547
01:37:24,950 --> 01:37:20,400
infrequently during the 19th century in

2548
01:37:27,109 --> 01:37:24,960
such works as edgar allan poe's hop frog

2549
01:37:29,669 --> 01:37:27,119
which is believed by jack morgan of the

2550
01:37:31,830 --> 01:37:29,679
university of missouri rolla

2551
01:37:35,189 --> 01:37:31,840
to draw upon an earlier incident at a

2552
01:37:38,070 --> 01:37:35,199
masquerade ball in the 14th century i

2553
01:37:40,950 --> 01:37:38,080
mean it just goes on and on right

2554
01:37:42,790 --> 01:37:40,960
it's like endless stream here

2555
01:37:45,590 --> 01:37:42,800
uh yeah yeah so

2556
01:37:47,510 --> 01:37:45,600
i mean you know go back and read mothman

2557
01:37:49,030 --> 01:37:47,520
prophecies again and you've just got

2558
01:37:51,350 --> 01:37:49,040
these casted characters it sort of

2559
01:37:55,030 --> 01:37:51,360
blends into the men in black

2560
01:37:57,830 --> 01:37:55,040
which is a very strong genre and upology

2561
01:37:59,750 --> 01:37:57,840
so were these guys men in black and if

2562
01:38:01,270 --> 01:37:59,760
you know what is a man in black what is

2563
01:38:03,270 --> 01:38:01,280
that really is that a government agent

2564
01:38:05,510 --> 01:38:03,280
or those aliens you know

2565
01:38:07,590 --> 01:38:05,520
a lot of the descriptions are like

2566
01:38:09,189 --> 01:38:07,600
they don't quite have their costumes

2567
01:38:10,790 --> 01:38:09,199
together or something or something is

2568
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:10,800
really askew

2569
01:38:14,070 --> 01:38:11,679
in their

2570
01:38:14,790 --> 01:38:14,080
presentation and their appearance

2571
01:38:17,669 --> 01:38:14,800
so

2572
01:38:20,390 --> 01:38:17,679
you know this is a branch that takes off

2573
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:20,400
it's a vector off of the subject that

2574
01:38:24,149 --> 01:38:22,000
we're on here but uh

2575
01:38:27,109 --> 01:38:24,159
so you have to wonder okay

2576
01:38:28,830 --> 01:38:27,119
i i find it unlikely myself that any osi

2577
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:28,840
guy is going to go down and my

2578
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:31,360
mother when they knew if they wanted to

2579
01:38:35,430 --> 01:38:34,400
talk to me i was very easy to find so

2580
01:38:37,430 --> 01:38:35,440
uh

2581
01:38:39,590 --> 01:38:37,440
they didn't talk to you they worked

2582
01:38:41,350 --> 01:38:39,600
around you to intimidate the people you

2583
01:38:43,510 --> 01:38:41,360
knew and that it wasn't intimidating

2584
01:38:45,910 --> 01:38:43,520
it's like oh geez okay well i've sucked

2585
01:38:47,430 --> 01:38:45,920
my poor old mother into this now

2586
01:38:49,910 --> 01:38:47,440
uh that

2587
01:38:50,950 --> 01:38:49,920
really what's up with that

2588
01:38:55,270 --> 01:38:50,960
uh

2589
01:38:59,189 --> 01:38:55,280
getting out here this is more in line

2590
01:39:02,629 --> 01:38:59,199
with mib men in black type activities

2591
01:39:04,629 --> 01:39:02,639
uh so that you know you can't explain

2592
01:39:06,629 --> 01:39:04,639
one unknown with another unknown so it's

2593
01:39:08,310 --> 01:39:06,639
just something that you like tom always

2594
01:39:09,830 --> 01:39:08,320
says well we can't factor it in and we

2595
01:39:11,830 --> 01:39:09,840
can't factor it out and say that about

2596
01:39:13,669 --> 01:39:11,840
everything but he was fascinated with

2597
01:39:16,149 --> 01:39:13,679
that kind of stuff and and so am i it's

2598
01:39:18,229 --> 01:39:16,159
like this is something i just don't know

2599
01:39:20,149 --> 01:39:18,239
where to put it i really don't

2600
01:39:22,550 --> 01:39:20,159
but uh yeah there's been a host of

2601
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:22,560
strange characters strange occurrences

2602
01:39:26,629 --> 01:39:24,320
uh but if you

2603
01:39:28,790 --> 01:39:26,639
are a paranoid bed

2604
01:39:31,750 --> 01:39:28,800
you could find plenty of material here

2605
01:39:32,950 --> 01:39:31,760
to just freak you out and push you the

2606
01:39:35,270 --> 01:39:32,960
edge

2607
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:35,280
but i i personally don't see it that way

2608
01:39:38,470 --> 01:39:36,560
and i don't know why maybe it's just

2609
01:39:40,550 --> 01:39:38,480
totally naive

2610
01:39:42,790 --> 01:39:40,560
that there is really danger lurking here

2611
01:39:44,310 --> 01:39:42,800
but i don't think i don't feel it i

2612
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:44,320
don't you know

2613
01:39:48,629 --> 01:39:46,000
something about this is

2614
01:39:51,270 --> 01:39:48,639
too theatrical and it's it's meant to

2615
01:39:52,870 --> 01:39:51,280
have the effect that it has on us and on

2616
01:39:55,350 --> 01:39:52,880
society

2617
01:39:56,390 --> 01:39:55,360
uh it does have some scary and dangerous

2618
01:39:58,149 --> 01:39:56,400
uh

2619
01:40:00,070 --> 01:39:58,159
aspects to it

2620
01:40:01,669 --> 01:40:00,080
but if you're gonna get absorbed in that

2621
01:40:04,149 --> 01:40:01,679
you're in the wrong field you know you

2622
01:40:05,669 --> 01:40:04,159
should uh from my point of view i just

2623
01:40:08,470 --> 01:40:05,679
take it for what it's worth which is not

2624
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:08,480
a hell of a lot and move on you know

2625
01:40:11,510 --> 01:40:10,080
you have to watch out for people who

2626
01:40:13,270 --> 01:40:11,520
take advantage

2627
01:40:15,430 --> 01:40:13,280
of this but you know

2628
01:40:18,629 --> 01:40:15,440
the impression i got before is that for

2629
01:40:20,709 --> 01:40:18,639
various reasons tom adams maybe later in

2630
01:40:21,510 --> 01:40:20,719
his life was intimidated

2631
01:40:23,669 --> 01:40:21,520
by

2632
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:23,679
things like this but you wonder why

2633
01:40:27,990 --> 01:40:25,280
after being in the field for so many

2634
01:40:29,430 --> 01:40:28,000
years being jaded you have to be by the

2635
01:40:31,830 --> 01:40:29,440
things that went on

2636
01:40:33,590 --> 01:40:31,840
what would it take to intimidate anybody

2637
01:40:34,950 --> 01:40:33,600
you chris me

2638
01:40:37,430 --> 01:40:34,960
tom adams

2639
01:40:40,229 --> 01:40:37,440
yeah good question really good question

2640
01:40:42,470 --> 01:40:40,239
uh well i i think it might be an opening

2641
01:40:43,510 --> 01:40:42,480
here for something i want to talk about

2642
01:40:46,950 --> 01:40:43,520
uh

2643
01:40:48,470 --> 01:40:46,960
tom tom and christa his wife

2644
01:40:50,629 --> 01:40:48,480
and their marriage

2645
01:40:52,149 --> 01:40:50,639
and it was a turning point for tom and

2646
01:40:53,990 --> 01:40:52,159
it's it's a

2647
01:40:57,270 --> 01:40:54,000
time that we're talking about the time

2648
01:41:00,149 --> 01:40:57,280
of this marriage from 1987 to 19

2649
01:41:01,910 --> 01:41:00,159
what it was 91 when they were divorced

2650
01:41:04,229 --> 01:41:01,920
explain who krista tilton was for some

2651
01:41:06,950 --> 01:41:04,239
of our new listeners yes so krista

2652
01:41:10,149 --> 01:41:06,960
tilton is a

2653
01:41:12,470 --> 01:41:10,159
abductee world is a pretty famous

2654
01:41:14,149 --> 01:41:12,480
uh abductee claims to have been abducted

2655
01:41:17,030 --> 01:41:14,159
on several occasions

2656
01:41:19,030 --> 01:41:17,040
tom uh hooked up with her

2657
01:41:20,870 --> 01:41:19,040
this is all comes through wendell

2658
01:41:22,310 --> 01:41:20,880
stephens basically

2659
01:41:23,830 --> 01:41:22,320
and i know you're both familiar with

2660
01:41:26,149 --> 01:41:23,840
wendell stevens

2661
01:41:27,830 --> 01:41:26,159
long story short i guess uh

2662
01:41:29,910 --> 01:41:27,840
i'm not quite sure how that connection

2663
01:41:30,950 --> 01:41:29,920
was made where tom and christopher's met

2664
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:30,960
but

2665
01:41:35,669 --> 01:41:33,199
uh if you on the internet you will see

2666
01:41:37,750 --> 01:41:35,679
probably numerous references to the fact

2667
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:37,760
that krista was married to wendell

2668
01:41:42,229 --> 01:41:40,239
stevens and that she married him while

2669
01:41:44,950 --> 01:41:42,239
he was in prison

2670
01:41:46,950 --> 01:41:44,960
for

2671
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:46,960
but uh

2672
01:41:51,030 --> 01:41:48,000
she

2673
01:41:53,590 --> 01:41:51,040
after

2674
01:41:55,990 --> 01:41:53,600
they divorced then she married tom

2675
01:41:58,390 --> 01:41:56,000
she married wendell in prison and she

2676
01:42:01,510 --> 01:41:58,400
told me one time she and tom and gary

2677
01:42:03,669 --> 01:42:01,520
visited me in colorado at my house there

2678
01:42:05,750 --> 01:42:03,679
and she said tell this story about on

2679
01:42:08,070 --> 01:42:05,760
the way to i think it was on the way to

2680
01:42:09,350 --> 01:42:08,080
get married to wendell in prison that

2681
01:42:11,109 --> 01:42:09,360
she was driving down the road to the

2682
01:42:12,550 --> 01:42:11,119
prison and there was a mutilated cow by

2683
01:42:14,070 --> 01:42:12,560
the side of the road

2684
01:42:16,470 --> 01:42:14,080
and she stopped and looked it over and

2685
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:16,480
said yep sure enough mutilated then went

2686
01:42:20,229 --> 01:42:18,960
on to meet with wendell

2687
01:42:24,229 --> 01:42:20,239
so

2688
01:42:26,149 --> 01:42:24,239
material this morning

2689
01:42:28,310 --> 01:42:26,159
and which kind of gave me a new insight

2690
01:42:29,430 --> 01:42:28,320
about tom and this intimidation factor

2691
01:42:31,270 --> 01:42:29,440
or

2692
01:42:32,790 --> 01:42:31,280
the fact that he was getting deep into

2693
01:42:36,550 --> 01:42:32,800
government

2694
01:42:38,149 --> 01:42:36,560
perhaps involvement or something but

2695
01:42:40,950 --> 01:42:38,159
krista and wendell

2696
01:42:42,030 --> 01:42:40,960
co-published a book

2697
01:42:47,990 --> 01:42:42,040
in

2698
01:42:50,070 --> 01:42:48,000
called the triad experiment

2699
01:42:52,390 --> 01:42:50,080
it was called ufo abductions of women

2700
01:42:54,870 --> 01:42:52,400
the triad experiment she used the name

2701
01:42:57,590 --> 01:42:54,880
crystal e and co-author wendell c

2702
01:43:00,229 --> 01:42:57,600
stevens 1988

2703
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:00,239
in which she details her wendell

2704
01:43:05,910 --> 01:43:03,040
basically does her abduction

2705
01:43:08,149 --> 01:43:05,920
like going back to the early 70s

2706
01:43:10,629 --> 01:43:08,159
but in there wendell says that he

2707
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:10,639
discusses this incident of the tucson

2708
01:43:16,149 --> 01:43:12,480
airport

2709
01:43:17,910 --> 01:43:16,159
where something came over krista and she

2710
01:43:21,270 --> 01:43:17,920
went into a trance

2711
01:43:23,430 --> 01:43:21,280
and it was somehow then conveyed

2712
01:43:24,470 --> 01:43:23,440
through her two window

2713
01:43:27,510 --> 01:43:24,480
that the

2714
01:43:29,350 --> 01:43:27,520
supposed aliens were using her

2715
01:43:32,550 --> 01:43:29,360
to impart the information they wanted

2716
01:43:35,669 --> 01:43:32,560
and parted at this time to wendell for

2717
01:43:37,350 --> 01:43:35,679
the purposes of the alien agenda i guess

2718
01:43:39,270 --> 01:43:37,360
and i have a feeling that a similar

2719
01:43:40,390 --> 01:43:39,280
thing happened with tom

2720
01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:40,400
that

2721
01:43:52,470 --> 01:43:41,199
he

2722
01:43:54,149 --> 01:43:52,480
examination tables

2723
01:43:56,390 --> 01:43:54,159
she's in contact with the aliens

2724
01:43:58,390 --> 01:43:56,400
mentally telepathically

2725
01:44:01,669 --> 01:43:58,400
they're trying to convey something

2726
01:44:04,310 --> 01:44:01,679
through her to me that being tom adams

2727
01:44:07,030 --> 01:44:04,320
perfect girl to marry

2728
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:07,040
jesus and then you know they're they're

2729
01:44:12,709 --> 01:44:09,520
more rather unkind uh

2730
01:44:16,310 --> 01:44:12,719
analysis of these uh you know

2731
01:44:17,990 --> 01:44:16,320
culinary ufo ruby uh moving from one

2732
01:44:20,629 --> 01:44:18,000
well-known researcher to another

2733
01:44:23,270 --> 01:44:20,639
well-known researcher and

2734
01:44:25,830 --> 01:44:23,280
having personal problems

2735
01:44:28,310 --> 01:44:25,840
i'm not sure what nature but mostly

2736
01:44:30,470 --> 01:44:28,320
related to her supposed abductions

2737
01:44:32,550 --> 01:44:30,480
she was apparently first abducted she

2738
01:44:35,669 --> 01:44:32,560
says 1972

2739
01:44:38,229 --> 01:44:35,679
and then shortly thereafter she was

2740
01:44:41,030 --> 01:44:38,239
found to be pregnant and she

2741
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:41,040
and wendell as wendell tells it that she

2742
01:44:45,350 --> 01:44:43,199
claims she had absolutely no sexual

2743
01:44:46,790 --> 01:44:45,360
contact during any of that time that

2744
01:44:48,790 --> 01:44:46,800
could possibly

2745
01:44:51,830 --> 01:44:48,800
have explained how she became pregnant

2746
01:44:55,189 --> 01:44:51,840
she miscarried the baby and then she was

2747
01:44:57,669 --> 01:44:55,199
abducted uh at least three more times in

2748
01:44:58,629 --> 01:44:57,679
which apparently the aliens were trying

2749
01:45:00,709 --> 01:44:58,639
to

2750
01:45:02,790 --> 01:45:00,719
impregnate her again and were adjusting

2751
01:45:04,390 --> 01:45:02,800
her hormones and

2752
01:45:06,790 --> 01:45:04,400
trying to get her to be some sort of

2753
01:45:09,750 --> 01:45:06,800
breeding stock and she was in

2754
01:45:13,189 --> 01:45:09,760
communication with this this entity her

2755
01:45:15,189 --> 01:45:13,199
guide my john who was a palladian

2756
01:45:17,030 --> 01:45:15,199
it sounds more like some kind of game

2757
01:45:19,270 --> 01:45:17,040
but i don't want to get into that

2758
01:45:27,270 --> 01:45:19,280
well we've got david perkins with gina

2759
01:45:32,629 --> 01:45:29,910
the nation's largest independently owned

2760
01:45:37,430 --> 01:45:32,639
and operated talk radio network the

2761
01:45:39,430 --> 01:45:37,440
genesis communications network g c n

2762
01:45:41,189 --> 01:45:39,440
hi this is larry smith sometimes bad

2763
01:45:42,950 --> 01:45:41,199
things happen to good people when the

2764
01:45:44,470 --> 01:45:42,960
cleaners ruined some special clothing

2765
01:45:46,390 --> 01:45:44,480
all they could do was show us a sign

2766
01:45:47,669 --> 01:45:46,400
that said they weren't responsible but

2767
01:45:49,669 --> 01:45:47,679
when they got the letter from one of our

2768
01:45:51,270 --> 01:45:49,679
legal shield attorneys he probably gave

2769
01:45:53,830 --> 01:45:51,280
us a check for eleven hundred and fifty

2770
01:45:55,669 --> 01:45:53,840
two dollars worry less and live more

2771
01:45:56,830 --> 01:45:55,679
with lsprotection.com

2772
01:46:00,950 --> 01:45:56,840
that's

2773
01:46:04,310 --> 01:46:00,960
lsprotection.com or call 855 340 save

2774
01:46:08,149 --> 01:46:06,629
results will vary from case to case hi

2775
01:46:09,669 --> 01:46:08,159
this is ted anderson have you ever

2776
01:46:11,270 --> 01:46:09,679
wondered why banks stock brokers

2777
01:46:13,270 --> 01:46:11,280
investment advisors won't talk about

2778
01:46:15,590 --> 01:46:13,280
gold iras they've been available since

2779
01:46:17,350 --> 01:46:15,600
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2780
01:46:19,350 --> 01:46:17,360
recognize the value of gold for your

2781
01:46:21,590 --> 01:46:19,360
retirement gold is outperformed paper

2782
01:46:23,109 --> 01:46:21,600
investments yet no word about iras if

2783
01:46:26,709 --> 01:46:23,119
you would like to have gold for your

2784
01:46:28,629 --> 01:46:26,719
retirement call 800 686 223 don't get

2785
01:46:31,990 --> 01:46:28,639
left behind by rising inflation and low

2786
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2787
01:46:39,030 --> 01:46:33,360
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2788
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2789
01:46:46,070 --> 01:46:43,600
food stockpile with the industry leader

2790
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2791
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2792
01:46:51,510 --> 01:46:49,440
you have made them part of their

2793
01:46:53,510 --> 01:46:51,520
emergency preparedness plan

2794
01:46:55,830 --> 01:46:53,520
experience the my patriot supply

2795
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difference today with this unbelievable

2796
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2797
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2798
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2799
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percent off the online price call 800

2800
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274 3070 to claim yours limit two per

2801
01:47:13,590 --> 01:47:11,440
caller while supplies last this offer

2802
01:47:15,430 --> 01:47:13,600
isn't available online so you wanna make

2803
01:47:18,310 --> 01:47:15,440
sure and grab this opportunity to get

2804
01:47:20,870 --> 01:47:18,320
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2805
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2806
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week food supply for the incredible

2807
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2808
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and it'll be shipped to you completely

2809
01:47:32,910 --> 01:47:29,320
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2810
01:47:35,109 --> 01:47:32,920
800-274-3070 right now that's

2811
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800-274-3070 to claim yours while

2812
01:47:49,109 --> 01:47:45,910
[Applause]

2813
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:49,119
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2814
01:47:54,070 --> 01:47:52,800
standard of paranormal radio

2815
01:47:57,350 --> 01:47:54,080
and now

2816
01:48:00,629 --> 01:47:57,360
here's jane steinberg

2817
01:48:04,149 --> 01:48:02,390
sounds like chris is being abducted as

2818
01:48:05,990 --> 01:48:04,159
we speak

2819
01:48:07,910 --> 01:48:06,000
i was looking up krista tilton as we

2820
01:48:10,149 --> 01:48:07,920
talked is she's still alive

2821
01:48:11,669 --> 01:48:10,159
i believe so according to what i can

2822
01:48:14,229 --> 01:48:11,679
gather from

2823
01:48:16,550 --> 01:48:14,239
i haven't tried to make contact with her

2824
01:48:18,950 --> 01:48:16,560
uh my understanding she's still alive

2825
01:48:20,470 --> 01:48:18,960
living in tucson

2826
01:48:22,070 --> 01:48:20,480
let's just just to go a little further

2827
01:48:24,310 --> 01:48:22,080
about how tom got

2828
01:48:26,229 --> 01:48:24,320
into the weeds pretty far here

2829
01:48:29,030 --> 01:48:26,239
this is the abduction wheats which can

2830
01:48:31,430 --> 01:48:29,040
get to be pretty strange oh yeah so

2831
01:48:33,590 --> 01:48:31,440
but if you know i'm trying to put myself

2832
01:48:35,350 --> 01:48:33,600
in his mind and

2833
01:48:37,270 --> 01:48:35,360
you plus you've got this romantic

2834
01:48:39,510 --> 01:48:37,280
relationship brewing in the middle of

2835
01:48:41,990 --> 01:48:39,520
everything else which

2836
01:48:44,870 --> 01:48:42,000
has been known to alter your perceptions

2837
01:48:46,470 --> 01:48:44,880
one's perceptions about things and

2838
01:48:48,310 --> 01:48:46,480
uh

2839
01:48:50,470 --> 01:48:48,320
there's a lot of emotional

2840
01:48:51,990 --> 01:48:50,480
uplift and downdraft in those kind of

2841
01:48:55,109 --> 01:48:52,000
situations

2842
01:48:56,709 --> 01:48:55,119
so but tom i could see him thinking like

2843
01:48:58,709 --> 01:48:56,719
this woman is

2844
01:48:59,510 --> 01:48:58,719
in contact with aliens this is it you

2845
01:49:01,910 --> 01:48:59,520
know

2846
01:49:03,910 --> 01:49:01,920
and then krista had this whole

2847
01:49:05,430 --> 01:49:03,920
tale about how she had a government

2848
01:49:07,350 --> 01:49:05,440
minder

2849
01:49:08,550 --> 01:49:07,360
i can't remember what his name was

2850
01:49:10,470 --> 01:49:08,560
supposed to be

2851
01:49:12,070 --> 01:49:10,480
wallace i believe

2852
01:49:14,390 --> 01:49:12,080
john wallace

2853
01:49:17,030 --> 01:49:14,400
from nellis air force base

2854
01:49:19,350 --> 01:49:17,040
and he was in charge of like

2855
01:49:20,870 --> 01:49:19,360
following her around to her lectures and

2856
01:49:23,109 --> 01:49:20,880
supposedly

2857
01:49:24,709 --> 01:49:23,119
had her mind controlled

2858
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:24,719
this is where it gets really murky you

2859
01:49:29,109 --> 01:49:26,800
know so what where tom got into real

2860
01:49:30,629 --> 01:49:29,119
trouble was krista and tom and this guy

2861
01:49:32,470 --> 01:49:30,639
wallace apparently

2862
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:32,480
came up with this plan to see how a

2863
01:49:37,590 --> 01:49:35,199
rumor spread in the ufo community

2864
01:49:40,950 --> 01:49:37,600
which is doesn't really sound like tom's

2865
01:49:43,030 --> 01:49:40,960
style at all but he got sucked into it

2866
01:49:44,790 --> 01:49:43,040
and so they came up with this idea this

2867
01:49:45,990 --> 01:49:44,800
thing that's like after crystal left

2868
01:49:47,750 --> 01:49:46,000
wendell

2869
01:49:49,510 --> 01:49:47,760
that she you know

2870
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:49,520
eloped or something with this guy john

2871
01:49:53,669 --> 01:49:52,239
wallace who took her under his wing and

2872
01:49:56,390 --> 01:49:53,679
she was to be

2873
01:49:58,470 --> 01:49:56,400
the government star abductee as they

2874
01:50:00,790 --> 01:49:58,480
filter this information out

2875
01:50:03,350 --> 01:50:00,800
about the alien presence

2876
01:50:04,870 --> 01:50:03,360
and it was going to come through her and

2877
01:50:06,790 --> 01:50:04,880
the you know the government was going to

2878
01:50:09,430 --> 01:50:06,800
direct how it was disseminated to the

2879
01:50:10,629 --> 01:50:09,440
public and wallace was a reminder

2880
01:50:13,270 --> 01:50:10,639
so

2881
01:50:16,229 --> 01:50:13,280
they concocted this story

2882
01:50:18,229 --> 01:50:16,239
put it into the ufo research community

2883
01:50:19,750 --> 01:50:18,239
treadmill and uh

2884
01:50:21,350 --> 01:50:19,760
to see where it would go and who would

2885
01:50:22,950 --> 01:50:21,360
take what side who would believe it who

2886
01:50:25,750 --> 01:50:22,960
wouldn't believe it who would add on to

2887
01:50:27,910 --> 01:50:25,760
it some sort of sociological experiment

2888
01:50:30,550 --> 01:50:27,920
or what i i don't see the logic of it

2889
01:50:32,550 --> 01:50:30,560
myself but it really backfired on them

2890
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:32,560
and they got an enormous amount of grief

2891
01:50:35,990 --> 01:50:34,080
at least tom and christa did i don't

2892
01:50:37,750 --> 01:50:36,000
know this wallace but i don't know what

2893
01:50:39,910 --> 01:50:37,760
his story was but

2894
01:50:41,510 --> 01:50:39,920
after that some serious researchers i

2895
01:50:43,750 --> 01:50:41,520
was just reading her saying after this

2896
01:50:45,270 --> 01:50:43,760
fiasco i will never believe it where tom

2897
01:50:46,950 --> 01:50:45,280
adams says again

2898
01:50:48,629 --> 01:50:46,960
this is ridiculous

2899
01:50:50,870 --> 01:50:48,639
you know playing with people toying with

2900
01:50:52,950 --> 01:50:50,880
this kind of stuff it never went back on

2901
01:50:55,030 --> 01:50:52,960
her original claims that she was the

2902
01:50:56,870 --> 01:50:55,040
chosen one basically

2903
01:50:59,510 --> 01:50:56,880
by john or whoever

2904
01:51:00,870 --> 01:50:59,520
to convey the alien agenda to the world

2905
01:51:02,870 --> 01:51:00,880
and the government was going to filter

2906
01:51:05,430 --> 01:51:02,880
how that agenda

2907
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:05,440
came out of her and into the

2908
01:51:09,990 --> 01:51:07,760
public consciousness so yeah and this is

2909
01:51:11,430 --> 01:51:10,000
all post communion right post without

2910
01:51:14,709 --> 01:51:11,440
stephen yeah

2911
01:51:16,790 --> 01:51:14,719
yeah i had a feeling it was it was so

2912
01:51:19,030 --> 01:51:16,800
uh so you see how things started getting

2913
01:51:21,270 --> 01:51:19,040
kind of murky and messy here

2914
01:51:22,229 --> 01:51:21,280
tom had you know i was playing along

2915
01:51:24,390 --> 01:51:22,239
with this

2916
01:51:25,830 --> 01:51:24,400
i don't think it was his idea

2917
01:51:27,830 --> 01:51:25,840
but he

2918
01:51:30,390 --> 01:51:27,840
went with it you know and i think that

2919
01:51:33,750 --> 01:51:30,400
was another once he and christa had

2920
01:51:35,830 --> 01:51:33,760
divorced and she's gone her way

2921
01:51:37,270 --> 01:51:35,840
he maybe had time to ponder his

2922
01:51:39,109 --> 01:51:37,280
involvement with all that and was

2923
01:51:42,709 --> 01:51:39,119
profoundly embarrassed

2924
01:51:45,270 --> 01:51:42,719
well i i noticed a real uh shift in tone

2925
01:51:48,470 --> 01:51:45,280
in his publication crux which was at

2926
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:48,480
about this time folded into stigmata all

2927
01:51:52,310 --> 01:51:49,760
of a sudden they're talking about

2928
01:51:53,669 --> 01:51:52,320
channeling this and yeah a lot of new

2929
01:51:56,390 --> 01:51:53,679
age kind of

2930
01:51:58,470 --> 01:51:56,400
head scratching stuff that was really uh

2931
01:52:00,390 --> 01:51:58,480
very surprising to me when i was over at

2932
01:52:02,870 --> 01:52:00,400
your house researching

2933
01:52:05,189 --> 01:52:02,880
going through all those uh copies of

2934
01:52:07,910 --> 01:52:05,199
stigmata and crux when i got to the end

2935
01:52:10,310 --> 01:52:07,920
of them i i noticed that there's you can

2936
01:52:11,589 --> 01:52:10,320
really see the influence of of christa

2937
01:52:14,070 --> 01:52:11,599
in there with

2938
01:52:15,430 --> 01:52:14,080
a whole kind of new age sort of suspend

2939
01:52:18,390 --> 01:52:15,440
your disbelief

2940
01:52:20,550 --> 01:52:18,400
uh even sort of tone to it and

2941
01:52:22,070 --> 01:52:20,560
his work kind of fizzled out at that

2942
01:52:24,070 --> 01:52:22,080
point true

2943
01:52:26,229 --> 01:52:24,080
yeah this is true and uh

2944
01:52:30,390 --> 01:52:26,239
so it was it's part of the ongoing

2945
01:52:32,229 --> 01:52:30,400
wendell stephen saga and by the way even

2946
01:52:34,470 --> 01:52:32,239
though it's generally acknowledged

2947
01:52:35,990 --> 01:52:34,480
everywhere i read that they krista and

2948
01:52:38,310 --> 01:52:36,000
wendell were married i could find no

2949
01:52:40,310 --> 01:52:38,320
evidence of that whatsoever and i've got

2950
01:52:42,390 --> 01:52:40,320
really good ways of going after public

2951
01:52:44,390 --> 01:52:42,400
records you know the same way i got tom

2952
01:52:45,990 --> 01:52:44,400
and christa's marriage and divorce

2953
01:52:48,310 --> 01:52:46,000
records uh

2954
01:52:50,070 --> 01:52:48,320
and i can find absolutely no evidence

2955
01:52:51,189 --> 01:52:50,080
that wendell and krista were ever

2956
01:52:52,229 --> 01:52:51,199
married

2957
01:52:53,510 --> 01:52:52,239
none

2958
01:52:55,589 --> 01:52:53,520
so that could have been a total

2959
01:52:57,589 --> 01:52:55,599
fabrication on her part i don't know why

2960
01:52:59,109 --> 01:52:57,599
she was some sort of agent provocateur

2961
01:53:01,189 --> 01:52:59,119
taking people out of their game and

2962
01:53:02,870 --> 01:53:01,199
stuff maybe she was tasked to do this

2963
01:53:05,669 --> 01:53:02,880
well now there there's another

2964
01:53:08,070 --> 01:53:05,679
interesting theory isn't it it sure sure

2965
01:53:10,550 --> 01:53:08,080
muddied the waters and upology and from

2966
01:53:12,629 --> 01:53:10,560
some people the people's points of view

2967
01:53:15,750 --> 01:53:12,639
i suppose if you were in the government

2968
01:53:18,629 --> 01:53:15,760
there might be uh every reason to

2969
01:53:19,990 --> 01:53:18,639
make upology as murky as possible

2970
01:53:22,229 --> 01:53:20,000
i mean from their point of view you

2971
01:53:24,470 --> 01:53:22,239
could think okay

2972
01:53:26,950 --> 01:53:24,480
we've worked on this for 50 years and we

2973
01:53:29,990 --> 01:53:26,960
still have no idea what it is

2974
01:53:32,070 --> 01:53:30,000
it bugs us the public expects answers

2975
01:53:34,149 --> 01:53:32,080
so let's just make the ufologist look

2976
01:53:35,990 --> 01:53:34,159
like a bunch of fools and we'll throw

2977
01:53:38,310 --> 01:53:36,000
all this stuff in i actually think this

2978
01:53:39,990 --> 01:53:38,320
has happened uh it would be to their

2979
01:53:42,550 --> 01:53:40,000
advantage to make everybody in your

2980
01:53:45,669 --> 01:53:42,560
biology look like freaking idiots

2981
01:53:48,149 --> 01:53:45,679
and to thoroughly follow the waters for

2982
01:53:50,070 --> 01:53:48,159
any kind of serious research

2983
01:53:52,629 --> 01:53:50,080
because that way you can just say well

2984
01:53:54,390 --> 01:53:52,639
it's a bunch of deluded idiots we don't

2985
01:53:57,430 --> 01:53:54,400
take it seriously you know

2986
01:53:59,350 --> 01:53:57,440
just from a sociological government uh

2987
01:54:01,270 --> 01:53:59,360
point of view i could totally see the

2988
01:54:02,950 --> 01:54:01,280
logic of doing that

2989
01:54:04,950 --> 01:54:02,960
and whether she was the perfect vehicle

2990
01:54:06,870 --> 01:54:04,960
for that maybe so

2991
01:54:08,709 --> 01:54:06,880
well then how do you find the real stuff

2992
01:54:11,270 --> 01:54:08,719
in these fields there's so much of these

2993
01:54:13,109 --> 01:54:11,280
shenanigans going on well that's that's

2994
01:54:15,830 --> 01:54:13,119
where chris is really good because you

2995
01:54:18,070 --> 01:54:15,840
know you read those books and he he beat

2996
01:54:19,430 --> 01:54:18,080
the pavement he is a gumshoe

2997
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:19,440
he went out there said i'm not going to

2998
01:54:22,550 --> 01:54:20,960
take your word for it i'm not even going

2999
01:54:24,070 --> 01:54:22,560
to take the newspapers word for it i'm

3000
01:54:25,430 --> 01:54:24,080
going to go talk to these people i'm

3001
01:54:27,189 --> 01:54:25,440
going to get the interview i'm going to

3002
01:54:29,510 --> 01:54:27,199
publish it

3003
01:54:32,149 --> 01:54:29,520
uh so he's separating the wheat from the

3004
01:54:33,510 --> 01:54:32,159
chap there and i've i've tried to do the

3005
01:54:34,229 --> 01:54:33,520
same

3006
01:54:36,149 --> 01:54:34,239
that

3007
01:54:38,470 --> 01:54:36,159
you know you just boy once you get

3008
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:38,480
caught in this malm strike milestone of

3009
01:54:42,629 --> 01:54:39,360
uh

3010
01:54:45,270 --> 01:54:42,639
swirling craziness it really kind of

3011
01:54:47,350 --> 01:54:45,280
absorbs you and uh

3012
01:54:48,709 --> 01:54:47,360
and if you have any predilection toward

3013
01:54:51,270 --> 01:54:48,719
any of these theories you know

3014
01:54:52,149 --> 01:54:51,280
confirmation bias type stuff

3015
01:54:55,990 --> 01:54:52,159
then

3016
01:54:57,830 --> 01:54:56,000
go down the next road and

3017
01:55:00,070 --> 01:54:57,840
hit another dead end or enter another

3018
01:55:02,709 --> 01:55:00,080
labyrinth and it's just you know almost

3019
01:55:04,470 --> 01:55:02,719
purposely designed to confound

3020
01:55:06,229 --> 01:55:04,480
are you implying that's deliberate or

3021
01:55:07,189 --> 01:55:06,239
just an accident that's the kind of

3022
01:55:09,510 --> 01:55:07,199
thing right

3023
01:55:10,790 --> 01:55:09,520
i think part of that is deliberate i do

3024
01:55:12,550 --> 01:55:10,800
yeah and i think there's a part that's

3025
01:55:15,669 --> 01:55:12,560
totally built into the scenario just

3026
01:55:18,709 --> 01:55:15,679
just but the subject matter kind of

3027
01:55:20,550 --> 01:55:18,719
generates that that sort of confounding

3028
01:55:22,310 --> 01:55:20,560
it does and that that's where you it's

3029
01:55:23,430 --> 01:55:22,320
hard to separate those two you're right

3030
01:55:25,750 --> 01:55:23,440
because

3031
01:55:28,790 --> 01:55:25,760
uh the the trickster for instance uh

3032
01:55:30,790 --> 01:55:28,800
this is you know trickster tactics

3033
01:55:33,030 --> 01:55:30,800
uh if you're looking at the phenomenon

3034
01:55:35,030 --> 01:55:33,040
that is you know possibly is you know

3035
01:55:37,189 --> 01:55:35,040
some sort of uh

3036
01:55:38,790 --> 01:55:37,199
modern day version of trickster

3037
01:55:40,629 --> 01:55:38,800
mythology

3038
01:55:42,550 --> 01:55:40,639
then the trickster is always doing

3039
01:55:44,390 --> 01:55:42,560
pranks and always trying to mislead you

3040
01:55:47,109 --> 01:55:44,400
and confound you confuse you and turn

3041
01:55:50,390 --> 01:55:47,119
the social order upside down and

3042
01:55:52,470 --> 01:55:50,400
uh that's the role of the trickster

3043
01:55:54,390 --> 01:55:52,480
so that like you say that's that's built

3044
01:55:55,830 --> 01:55:54,400
into the phenomenon

3045
01:55:57,430 --> 01:55:55,840
and then you've got this other side

3046
01:55:58,830 --> 01:55:57,440
which is you know people interested in

3047
01:56:00,709 --> 01:55:58,840
societal

3048
01:56:02,629 --> 01:56:00,719
control for

3049
01:56:04,390 --> 01:56:02,639
the obvious reasons that they you know

3050
01:56:07,669 --> 01:56:04,400
want everything to be under control law

3051
01:56:09,030 --> 01:56:07,679
and order national security state etc

3052
01:56:11,109 --> 01:56:09,040
it would be

3053
01:56:12,950 --> 01:56:11,119
in their best interest

3054
01:56:15,030 --> 01:56:12,960
to say oh there's nothing to see here

3055
01:56:17,350 --> 01:56:15,040
this is nonsense it's a bunch of you

3056
01:56:18,550 --> 01:56:17,360
know national enquirer crap

3057
01:56:21,669 --> 01:56:18,560
and uh

3058
01:56:25,109 --> 01:56:21,679
you know these are superstitious diluted

3059
01:56:27,990 --> 01:56:25,119
ignorant people so you got those two

3060
01:56:29,910 --> 01:56:28,000
two vectors basically moving in parallel

3061
01:56:31,830 --> 01:56:29,920
yeah very easy to marginalize somebody

3062
01:56:35,830 --> 01:56:31,840
in this field if you want

3063
01:56:40,550 --> 01:56:37,430
you know we've got a lot to talk about

3064
01:56:42,950 --> 01:56:40,560
here about the work of tom adams and the

3065
01:56:45,030 --> 01:56:42,960
strange things he encountered which

3066
01:56:47,270 --> 01:56:45,040
obviously impacted

3067
01:56:49,350 --> 01:56:47,280
our cast and crew here

3068
01:56:51,510 --> 01:56:49,360
we also should tell you about the impact

3069
01:56:53,910 --> 01:56:51,520
of our other radio show after the power

3070
01:56:56,310 --> 01:56:53,920
cast you can learn more about it just by

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going to plus dot plus.powercast.com

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that's plus.powercast.com

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and you can sign up right there

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for five bucks a month 50 a year 175 for

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five years

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you get after the power cast the

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enhanced version of the power cast to

3078
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download and a free copy of chris

3079
01:57:17,510 --> 01:57:15,599
o'brien stalking the tricksters which is

3080
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influencing some of our conversation

3081
01:57:20,149 --> 01:57:18,639
here today

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and that's for people who subscribe to

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one year or more plus.thepowercast.com

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david perkins joins gene and chris

3085
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3110
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investing firms i get it you wouldn't

3111
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buy gold if you believed that the

3112
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government is doing a great job that the

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fed will stop handing out trillions of

3114
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dollars like bailout candy that social

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security would be there for you that's

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not what's happening you might even pass

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on gold if the stimulus package wouldn't

3118
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fuel inflation or that the dollar

3119
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wouldn't lose value or that your

3120
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retirement would be secure if all looks

3121
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rosy to you then now is not the time to

3122
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buy gold for the realest there have

3123
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never been more sobering reasons to

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diversify with gold since 2001 the us

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dollar index has tanked 30 percent while

3126
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gold has risen 300 percent right now

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savvy investors are adding gold to their

3128
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portfolios you should too find out what

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3132
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860

3133
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there's a man named dr joel wallach who

3134
01:59:44,870 --> 01:59:42,639
is anything but your typical doctor both

3135
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a veterinarian and naturopathic

3136
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physician doc asks why does the united

3137
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states spend more money on health care

3138
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by far and still rank 50th in health and

3139
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longevity worldwide he believes that

3140
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people should empower themselves with a

3141
02:00:00,229 --> 01:59:58,560
basic understanding of nutrition

3142
02:00:02,310 --> 02:00:00,239
take charge of their health and attain

3143
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optimal health and longevity through

3144
02:00:07,030 --> 02:00:04,800
nutrition not by toxic prescription

3145
02:00:09,990 --> 02:00:07,040
drugs that lead to side effects and more

3146
02:00:12,229 --> 02:00:10,000
toxic prescription drugs doc wallach's

3147
02:00:14,550 --> 02:00:12,239
message is resonating with an increasing

3148
02:00:16,550 --> 02:00:14,560
number of americans who are waking up to

3149
02:00:18,870 --> 02:00:16,560
all the big government big pharma and

3150
02:00:21,189 --> 02:00:18,880
big insurance manipulation of our health

3151
02:00:23,270 --> 02:00:21,199
care system i'm george dory and i like

3152
02:00:25,790 --> 02:00:23,280
what doc wallach is saying and doing to

3153
02:00:27,669 --> 02:00:25,800
enlighten people about health care visit

3154
02:00:29,830 --> 02:00:27,679
brightsidebend.com and listen to doc

3155
02:00:31,669 --> 02:00:29,840
wallach's deadly recipes lecture it

3156
02:00:34,510 --> 02:00:31,679
makes a lot of sense and i urge you to

3157
02:00:35,830 --> 02:00:34,520
join the brightside bend team go to

3158
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brightsidebend.com that's

3159
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3160
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for over five years you've been hearing

3161
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about the berkey guy so you may know a

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few things about him for example you are

3163
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well aware of the superior quality and

3164
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and accessories but did you know the

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berkeys have had independent lab tests

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done to prove just how effective they

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are it's true and he can email you the

3169
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test results just visit go berkey dot

3170
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com you may also know that the berkey

3171
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guy has helped tens of thousands of

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3178
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3179
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3181
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[Music]

3182
02:01:44,870 --> 02:01:42,390
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3183
02:01:48,470 --> 02:01:44,880
comment or question about the paracast

3184
02:01:51,669 --> 02:01:48,480
send it to news at theparecast.com

3185
02:01:53,510 --> 02:01:51,679
that's news at the paracast.com

3186
02:01:55,990 --> 02:01:53,520
and don't forget to visit our famous

3187
02:02:00,070 --> 02:01:56,000
paracast community forums at

3188
02:02:04,870 --> 02:02:02,310
the subject is tom adams one of the

3189
02:02:07,750 --> 02:02:04,880
unsung heroes of ufo research

3190
02:02:10,149 --> 02:02:07,760
today if you look for a magazine called

3191
02:02:14,550 --> 02:02:10,159
stigmata you find something in the

3192
02:02:19,830 --> 02:02:16,790
really i looked it up are there any

3193
02:02:22,470 --> 02:02:19,840
copies at all anywhere that one can find

3194
02:02:24,629 --> 02:02:22,480
well they're they're hard to come by

3195
02:02:26,070 --> 02:02:24,639
they're really hard to come by david has

3196
02:02:32,390 --> 02:02:26,080
a complete set

3197
02:02:33,669 --> 02:02:32,400
i i feel now compelled that you know

3198
02:02:35,669 --> 02:02:33,679
that uh

3199
02:02:38,229 --> 02:02:35,679
since i was entrusted with getting this

3200
02:02:39,910 --> 02:02:38,239
stuff out by tom that uh some somehow

3201
02:02:41,910 --> 02:02:39,920
i've got to get it all under one cover

3202
02:02:44,149 --> 02:02:41,920
and get it out

3203
02:02:45,830 --> 02:02:44,159
maybe with no editorial comment or

3204
02:02:48,470 --> 02:02:45,840
anything about it just okay here it is

3205
02:02:52,470 --> 02:02:48,480
here's what he published it's all here

3206
02:02:54,390 --> 02:02:52,480
so i i'm i'm feeling very very pressured

3207
02:02:57,030 --> 02:02:54,400
compelled whatever to go ahead and get

3208
02:02:58,870 --> 02:02:57,040
that out because uh i think there is a

3209
02:03:01,589 --> 02:02:58,880
new wave of interest in his work that

3210
02:03:03,510 --> 02:03:01,599
he's got well you know what tom's i

3211
02:03:04,790 --> 02:03:03,520
think tom's real

3212
02:03:10,070 --> 02:03:04,800
uh

3213
02:03:12,149 --> 02:03:10,080
tom adams having notoriety but one of

3214
02:03:12,870 --> 02:03:12,159
the things that i think most people out

3215
02:03:14,950 --> 02:03:12,880
there

3216
02:03:16,790 --> 02:03:14,960
who are aware of tom they're aware of

3217
02:03:19,990 --> 02:03:16,800
him because of his work on the mystery

3218
02:03:22,870 --> 02:03:20,000
helicopters he did produce a very very

3219
02:03:24,790 --> 02:03:22,880
interesting and i think very important

3220
02:03:27,189 --> 02:03:24,800
small publication called

3221
02:03:28,629 --> 02:03:27,199
the choppers and the choppers which is a

3222
02:03:31,350 --> 02:03:28,639
listing of over

3223
02:03:33,430 --> 02:03:31,360
300 documented helicopter reports in and

3224
02:03:36,709 --> 02:03:33,440
around mutilation sites and

3225
02:03:39,189 --> 02:03:36,719
it was invaluable for me uh in

3226
02:03:41,910 --> 02:03:39,199
all my books there were san luis valley

3227
02:03:44,070 --> 02:03:41,920
reports that i included in my san luis

3228
02:03:45,189 --> 02:03:44,080
valley books there were just countless

3229
02:03:47,830 --> 02:03:45,199
hundreds

3230
02:03:49,270 --> 02:03:47,840
that uh many of them were referred to in

3231
02:03:52,390 --> 02:03:49,280
stalking the herd

3232
02:03:53,189 --> 02:03:52,400
and i think that one particular subject

3233
02:03:55,669 --> 02:03:53,199
held

3234
02:03:56,870 --> 02:03:55,679
a particular fascination for tom i think

3235
02:03:59,589 --> 02:03:56,880
he really

3236
02:04:01,430 --> 02:03:59,599
truly felt that there was a smoking gun

3237
02:04:04,070 --> 02:04:01,440
connection between the mystery

3238
02:04:05,990 --> 02:04:04,080
helicopters and and the mutilation cases

3239
02:04:08,550 --> 02:04:06,000
that were blistering

3240
02:04:11,990 --> 02:04:08,560
the country all through the 70s except

3241
02:04:13,990 --> 02:04:12,000
for 72 and in you know up to this day uh

3242
02:04:15,510 --> 02:04:14,000
david just fielded a report that we'll

3243
02:04:17,910 --> 02:04:15,520
talk about in a little bit

3244
02:04:19,669 --> 02:04:17,920
from last week in where for now

3245
02:04:21,510 --> 02:04:19,679
but i do think and david if you'll

3246
02:04:24,550 --> 02:04:21,520
comment on this i do think that that

3247
02:04:26,390 --> 02:04:24,560
particular body of work probably is how

3248
02:04:28,310 --> 02:04:26,400
most people who have heard of tom would

3249
02:04:30,550 --> 02:04:28,320
probably have heard of him about i

3250
02:04:32,390 --> 02:04:30,560
totally agree chris and we've discussed

3251
02:04:35,270 --> 02:04:32,400
this at length but uh

3252
02:04:36,310 --> 02:04:35,280
tom early on got onto the helicopters as

3253
02:04:38,870 --> 02:04:36,320
part of

3254
02:04:41,109 --> 02:04:38,880
whatever the mutilation phenomenon was

3255
02:04:43,910 --> 02:04:41,119
and very astutely you know i don't know

3256
02:04:45,830 --> 02:04:43,920
i i saw it because of the colorado cases

3257
02:04:47,669 --> 02:04:45,840
involved a lot of helicopters in the

3258
02:04:50,070 --> 02:04:47,679
fall of 75

3259
02:04:51,189 --> 02:04:50,080
but tom said oh this is really really

3260
02:04:52,709 --> 02:04:51,199
significant

3261
02:04:54,550 --> 02:04:52,719
uh of course mixed in with those

3262
02:04:57,430 --> 02:04:54,560
helicopters were

3263
02:04:58,950 --> 02:04:57,440
numerous new classic ufo saucer

3264
02:05:00,070 --> 02:04:58,960
sightings so

3265
02:05:02,390 --> 02:05:00,080
uh

3266
02:05:03,830 --> 02:05:02,400
really mixed you know mixed mixed it up

3267
02:05:05,350 --> 02:05:03,840
they're pretty good but tom said i'm

3268
02:05:06,950 --> 02:05:05,360
just gonna focus on this helicopters i

3269
02:05:08,310 --> 02:05:06,960
want to do this report

3270
02:05:11,350 --> 02:05:08,320
and he prepared

3271
02:05:13,990 --> 02:05:11,360
his initial i guess prototype

3272
02:05:17,990 --> 02:05:14,000
report he submitted at senator schmitz

3273
02:05:19,830 --> 02:05:18,000
conference in april 79 in albuquerque

3274
02:05:21,030 --> 02:05:19,840
because it was an audience of law men

3275
02:05:22,470 --> 02:05:21,040
basically

3276
02:05:24,470 --> 02:05:22,480
and uh

3277
02:05:26,470 --> 02:05:24,480
others assorted

3278
02:05:27,750 --> 02:05:26,480
but uh this is where he laid it out and

3279
02:05:31,189 --> 02:05:27,760
said

3280
02:05:33,270 --> 02:05:31,199
here's what i have i have 200 documented

3281
02:05:35,910 --> 02:05:33,280
cases of helicopters

3282
02:05:38,229 --> 02:05:35,920
in close proximity

3283
02:05:39,669 --> 02:05:38,239
uh before and after these mutilation

3284
02:05:42,709 --> 02:05:39,679
events

3285
02:05:46,070 --> 02:05:42,719
this is highly significant oddly enough

3286
02:05:47,350 --> 02:05:46,080
no helicopter was ever observed directly

3287
02:05:49,430 --> 02:05:47,360
in

3288
02:05:51,589 --> 02:05:49,440
conjunction with the mutilation like you

3289
02:05:53,109 --> 02:05:51,599
know with a cow hanging from below it or

3290
02:05:55,350 --> 02:05:53,119
anything like that

3291
02:05:57,669 --> 02:05:55,360
but the timing of these things as you do

3292
02:06:00,149 --> 02:05:57,679
it's case after case that the case and

3293
02:06:02,470 --> 02:06:00,159
here's the helicopter was there the day

3294
02:06:04,790 --> 02:06:02,480
before and helicopter was heard that

3295
02:06:06,390 --> 02:06:04,800
night helicopter was seeing that

3296
02:06:08,229 --> 02:06:06,400
you know the next morning

3297
02:06:10,390 --> 02:06:08,239
what are these helicopters are they you

3298
02:06:11,750 --> 02:06:10,400
know he tom had several theories like

3299
02:06:14,070 --> 02:06:11,760
either the government was using the

3300
02:06:15,910 --> 02:06:14,080
helicopters to do the mutilations

3301
02:06:18,070 --> 02:06:15,920
or that the mutilations were being

3302
02:06:20,709 --> 02:06:18,080
observed by the government

3303
02:06:22,310 --> 02:06:20,719
in these helicopters trying to monitor

3304
02:06:24,070 --> 02:06:22,320
what the event was but they weren't

3305
02:06:26,629 --> 02:06:24,080
actually doing it this is another train

3306
02:06:29,510 --> 02:06:26,639
of thought or linda's theory

3307
02:06:32,470 --> 02:06:29,520
uh yeah orlando's well she uh

3308
02:06:35,270 --> 02:06:32,480
cite some cases where observers saw

3309
02:06:37,750 --> 02:06:35,280
what appeared to be a ufo saucer type

3310
02:06:39,510 --> 02:06:37,760
crap morph into a helicopter and then

3311
02:06:42,470 --> 02:06:39,520
more back into a craft

3312
02:06:45,910 --> 02:06:42,480
which you know is not absurd on the face

3313
02:06:48,310 --> 02:06:45,920
of it because uh i think one point of

3314
02:06:49,910 --> 02:06:48,320
view that i look at it is like a lot of

3315
02:06:53,109 --> 02:06:49,920
these events i i don't even call them

3316
02:06:54,709 --> 02:06:53,119
mutilations i call them manifestations

3317
02:06:57,430 --> 02:06:54,719
you know

3318
02:06:58,870 --> 02:06:57,440
or materializations uh

3319
02:07:00,709 --> 02:06:58,880
it's it's a

3320
02:07:02,069 --> 02:07:00,719
line of thought that i've been following

3321
02:07:04,069 --> 02:07:02,079
that uh

3322
02:07:06,390 --> 02:07:04,079
puts uh the emulations more in the realm

3323
02:07:08,629 --> 02:07:06,400
of the supernatural basically

3324
02:07:10,470 --> 02:07:08,639
you know it's kind of funny to me

3325
02:07:12,069 --> 02:07:10,480
that okay so tom comes up with all the

3326
02:07:13,589 --> 02:07:12,079
helicopter stuff and he keeps adding on

3327
02:07:16,229 --> 02:07:13,599
to it over the years

3328
02:07:19,030 --> 02:07:16,239
and as you know chris we we relied on it

3329
02:07:21,430 --> 02:07:19,040
really heavily in those sections of

3330
02:07:23,510 --> 02:07:21,440
stalking the herd and piecing together

3331
02:07:25,030 --> 02:07:23,520
stuff that happened in the early days

3332
02:07:27,589 --> 02:07:25,040
back in missouri

3333
02:07:29,510 --> 02:07:27,599
iowa illinois

3334
02:07:31,109 --> 02:07:29,520
where the helicopters were

3335
02:07:33,350 --> 02:07:31,119
rustling things and then it turned to

3336
02:07:36,229 --> 02:07:33,360
mutilations and

3337
02:07:37,669 --> 02:07:36,239
it was really very interesting research

3338
02:07:39,109 --> 02:07:37,679
we were doing there and it was all new

3339
02:07:40,709 --> 02:07:39,119
stuff that hadn't been put together

3340
02:07:43,270 --> 02:07:40,719
before and that was all basically coming

3341
02:07:44,069 --> 02:07:43,280
from tom his original poking into that

3342
02:07:46,950 --> 02:07:44,079
stuff

3343
02:07:49,030 --> 02:07:46,960
but i find it kind of funny that uh in

3344
02:07:50,950 --> 02:07:49,040
pop culture now you hear with the

3345
02:07:53,270 --> 02:07:50,960
pundits on tv talking about political

3346
02:07:55,109 --> 02:07:53,280
stuff and they make this casual

3347
02:07:56,709 --> 02:07:55,119
reference to like well

3348
02:07:58,709 --> 02:07:56,719
uh this or that would appear to the

3349
02:08:01,350 --> 02:07:58,719
black helicopter crowd

3350
02:08:03,589 --> 02:08:01,360
and so that is you know a pejorative

3351
02:08:05,430 --> 02:08:03,599
obviously

3352
02:08:07,030 --> 02:08:05,440
and i'm thinking well if they only knew

3353
02:08:10,069 --> 02:08:07,040
that

3354
02:08:10,950 --> 02:08:10,079
there is this black helicopter aspect to

3355
02:08:15,030 --> 02:08:10,960
our

3356
02:08:17,350 --> 02:08:15,040
about other stuff generally the black

3357
02:08:18,870 --> 02:08:17,360
helicopter crowd now has referred to

3358
02:08:21,430 --> 02:08:18,880
people who think

3359
02:08:23,910 --> 02:08:21,440
it's the black helicopters of the u.n

3360
02:08:25,430 --> 02:08:23,920
you know new world order enforcers and

3361
02:08:27,910 --> 02:08:25,440
that kind of thing it's not really

3362
02:08:29,990 --> 02:08:27,920
paranormal but uh it's you know

3363
02:08:32,390 --> 02:08:30,000
definitely conspiracy theory

3364
02:08:35,030 --> 02:08:32,400
but in terms of our pursuit of the

3365
02:08:37,109 --> 02:08:35,040
mutilations and whatnot uh it's it's a

3366
02:08:38,790 --> 02:08:37,119
definite factor and

3367
02:08:40,950 --> 02:08:38,800
over time i see it as a larger and

3368
02:08:43,350 --> 02:08:40,960
larger factor and tom recognized that

3369
02:08:44,550 --> 02:08:43,360
immediately and ran with it to his

3370
02:08:47,910 --> 02:08:44,560
credit

3371
02:08:49,430 --> 02:08:47,920
yeah we had kevin randall on the show uh

3372
02:08:51,350 --> 02:08:49,440
we just had him on the show was our last

3373
02:08:53,430 --> 02:08:51,360
show but we had him on a few months back

3374
02:08:54,790 --> 02:08:53,440
and of course kevin is a helicopter

3375
02:08:57,189 --> 02:08:54,800
pilot and

3376
02:08:58,550 --> 02:08:57,199
served in iraq was in vietnam

3377
02:09:00,790 --> 02:08:58,560
i tried to

3378
02:09:03,669 --> 02:09:00,800
talk about his involvement with alan

3379
02:09:05,430 --> 02:09:03,679
heineck and jerry clark early on in 71

3380
02:09:07,270 --> 02:09:05,440
monitoring some of the the

3381
02:09:08,229 --> 02:09:07,280
hog and cattle wrestling that was going

3382
02:09:09,830 --> 02:09:08,239
on and

3383
02:09:11,750 --> 02:09:09,840
and and then i tried i asked him i said

3384
02:09:13,510 --> 02:09:11,760
well where where did this whole meme of

3385
02:09:15,910 --> 02:09:13,520
the black helicopter

3386
02:09:21,830 --> 02:09:15,920
where did it begin you know who's behind

3387
02:09:25,990 --> 02:09:23,750
boy he set me back in my chair i was

3388
02:09:29,109 --> 02:09:26,000
thinking to myself me

3389
02:09:31,430 --> 02:09:29,119
no oh you did it for sure yeah it's all

3390
02:09:34,229 --> 02:09:31,440
me yeah i arrive in 93 the black

3391
02:09:36,550 --> 02:09:34,239
helicopter meme was was was already

3392
02:09:38,950 --> 02:09:36,560
going strong you were operating in

3393
02:09:41,189 --> 02:09:38,960
secret that's all well

3394
02:09:43,109 --> 02:09:41,199
i i got a call once from jim keith of

3395
02:09:44,790 --> 02:09:43,119
all people who wrote black helicopters

3396
02:09:46,229 --> 02:09:44,800
over america and i

3397
02:09:49,589 --> 02:09:46,239
you know this is early on in my

3398
02:09:52,870 --> 02:09:49,599
investigative uh process back in uh late

3399
02:09:54,310 --> 02:09:52,880
i think the fall of of 93 and and he

3400
02:09:56,470 --> 02:09:54,320
says i'm going to be you know in your

3401
02:09:59,030 --> 02:09:56,480
area are you going to be available in

3402
02:10:01,750 --> 02:09:59,040
such a such a time on such a day i said

3403
02:10:03,109 --> 02:10:01,760
yeah i'll make myself available so i

3404
02:10:04,550 --> 02:10:03,119
waited for his car and he got a call and

3405
02:10:06,149 --> 02:10:04,560
he goes okay

3406
02:10:08,229 --> 02:10:06,159
we're gonna meet and i said okay where

3407
02:10:10,069 --> 02:10:08,239
and he goes you know the safeway and

3408
02:10:12,790 --> 02:10:10,079
monte vista i said yeah he says we're

3409
02:10:14,470 --> 02:10:12,800
gonna meet in the northeast corner

3410
02:10:16,069 --> 02:10:14,480
a safe way you know what there's a safe

3411
02:10:18,470 --> 02:10:16,079
way right here i should go there and

3412
02:10:20,470 --> 02:10:18,480
look for a black helicopter we have

3413
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david perkins with gene and chris you're

3414
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great minds think alive the network for

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could use it for slideshows you could

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3520
02:14:48,709 --> 02:14:46,229
hey this is marie d jones the author of

3521
02:14:51,350 --> 02:14:48,719
this book is from the future

3522
02:15:01,430 --> 02:14:51,360
and you are listening to the paracast

3523
02:15:05,350 --> 02:15:03,589
call it the black helicopter cast or

3524
02:15:07,589 --> 02:15:05,360
something you know seriously speaking

3525
02:15:10,149 --> 02:15:07,599
they also use the pejorative at

3526
02:15:11,430 --> 02:15:10,159
believers for people interested in ufos

3527
02:15:13,510 --> 02:15:11,440
okay so

3528
02:15:15,830 --> 02:15:13,520
a safe way chris o'brien you're going to

3529
02:15:17,669 --> 02:15:15,840
meet this person tell me more

3530
02:15:18,950 --> 02:15:17,679
yeah it seemed

3531
02:15:20,709 --> 02:15:18,960
it was the only time i've ever had

3532
02:15:22,629 --> 02:15:20,719
somebody you know

3533
02:15:25,189 --> 02:15:22,639
wait till the last minute to set up an

3534
02:15:27,750 --> 02:15:25,199
actual place to meet and i've never met

3535
02:15:29,990 --> 02:15:27,760
anybody in a particular corner of a

3536
02:15:32,550 --> 02:15:30,000
parking lot before i felt it was

3537
02:15:34,790 --> 02:15:32,560
highly conspiratorial uh

3538
02:15:36,229 --> 02:15:34,800
it seemed paranoid i asked him you know

3539
02:15:38,709 --> 02:15:36,239
why the heck are we meeting here and he

3540
02:15:40,149 --> 02:15:38,719
goes so we can't be overheard i'm doing

3541
02:15:41,430 --> 02:15:40,159
important work

3542
02:15:43,189 --> 02:15:41,440
you know at the time i don't think he

3543
02:15:44,790 --> 02:15:43,199
had a working title for the book but i i

3544
02:15:47,430 --> 02:15:44,800
think i am actually

3545
02:15:49,669 --> 02:15:47,440
mentioned in there somewhere i had had a

3546
02:15:51,750 --> 02:15:49,679
number of helicopter reports that i dug

3547
02:15:53,830 --> 02:15:51,760
into and talked about a little bit

3548
02:15:55,430 --> 02:15:53,840
in my own writing in some of my early

3549
02:15:57,589 --> 02:15:55,440
articles and so he wanted to get more

3550
02:15:59,270 --> 02:15:57,599
information about that and i it's been

3551
02:16:01,350 --> 02:15:59,280
years since i read the book i do think

3552
02:16:04,950 --> 02:16:01,360
i'm included in there somewhere but you

3553
02:16:07,270 --> 02:16:04,960
can kevin you can't lay that all on me

3554
02:16:09,109 --> 02:16:07,280
i i actually was reported as a black

3555
02:16:11,830 --> 02:16:09,119
helicopter once i was

3556
02:16:14,550 --> 02:16:11,840
in a two-man dark purple helicopter and

3557
02:16:16,709 --> 02:16:14,560
the pilot let me fly it from monte vista

3558
02:16:18,870 --> 02:16:16,719
coincidentally all the way back 60 miles

3559
02:16:20,790 --> 02:16:18,880
to crest stone and and at one point i

3560
02:16:22,470 --> 02:16:20,800
dove down and

3561
02:16:24,229 --> 02:16:22,480
got real close to a herd of cattle and

3562
02:16:25,990 --> 02:16:24,239
evidently the rancher reported me and

3563
02:16:27,750 --> 02:16:26,000
the sheriff and a deputy tried to chase

3564
02:16:29,430 --> 02:16:27,760
the helicopter down and

3565
02:16:31,270 --> 02:16:29,440
because they had to do the zigzag roads

3566
02:16:33,190 --> 02:16:31,280
out there they couldn't keep up and the

3567
02:16:35,110 --> 02:16:33,200
next day in the rocky mountain news

3568
02:16:36,709 --> 02:16:35,120
somebody uh said oh you got to get the

3569
02:16:38,549 --> 02:16:36,719
paper there was a black helicopter in

3570
02:16:40,870 --> 02:16:38,559
the san luis valley yesterday and and

3571
02:16:42,870 --> 02:16:40,880
the description is of a of a strange

3572
02:16:45,190 --> 02:16:42,880
mysterious helicopter that was harassing

3573
02:16:47,270 --> 02:16:45,200
a herd of cows near monte vista and i

3574
02:16:51,270 --> 02:16:47,280
realized oh my god that was me

3575
02:16:54,950 --> 02:16:53,750
you made the news don't you feel proud

3576
02:16:57,509 --> 02:16:54,960
of yourself

3577
02:17:00,469 --> 02:16:57,519
yeah mystery helicopter harasses heard

3578
02:17:04,469 --> 02:17:00,479
in san luis valley's oh my god you

3579
02:17:06,549 --> 02:17:04,479
remember that david yeah that's too good

3580
02:17:08,150 --> 02:17:06,559
it was a two-man purple dark purple

3581
02:17:09,910 --> 02:17:08,160
helicopter which i guess looked black

3582
02:17:12,950 --> 02:17:09,920
when you looked up at it you know from

3583
02:17:15,750 --> 02:17:12,960
down below with a blue sky behind it but

3584
02:17:18,150 --> 02:17:15,760
yeah this guy is rocky roads man he came

3585
02:17:19,669 --> 02:17:18,160
down and you know rented a helicopter

3586
02:17:21,669 --> 02:17:19,679
for the day and i got to fly all around

3587
02:17:25,110 --> 02:17:21,679
the san luis valley and videotape it was

3588
02:17:27,429 --> 02:17:25,120
oh it was just a just a wonderful day

3589
02:17:29,509 --> 02:17:27,439
it just but i i just find it so ironic

3590
02:17:31,190 --> 02:17:29,519
and highly humorous that

3591
02:17:33,349 --> 02:17:31,200
that i should be uh

3592
02:17:35,429 --> 02:17:33,359
fingered as a as one of the mystery

3593
02:17:37,429 --> 02:17:35,439
black helicopters harassing cattle herds

3594
02:17:39,669 --> 02:17:37,439
you know i'm surprised i'm glad the guy

3595
02:17:42,629 --> 02:17:39,679
didn't start firing at us

3596
02:17:45,669 --> 02:17:42,639
that's so unique then they make a story

3597
02:17:46,469 --> 02:17:45,679
we have cases uh from several states

3598
02:17:49,190 --> 02:17:46,479
where

3599
02:17:51,190 --> 02:17:49,200
helicopters took fire returned fire

3600
02:17:52,870 --> 02:17:51,200
and in one case a team on the ground

3601
02:17:54,950 --> 02:17:52,880
started firing at the rancher as well as

3602
02:17:57,349 --> 02:17:54,960
the helicopter in the air so the san

3603
02:17:58,790 --> 02:17:57,359
luis valley two deputies and the sheriff

3604
02:18:00,549 --> 02:17:58,800
almost brought one down they said it was

3605
02:18:03,429 --> 02:18:00,559
starting to smoke and

3606
02:18:05,509 --> 02:18:03,439
the engine sounded clanking and and

3607
02:18:07,429 --> 02:18:05,519
according to the sheriff

3608
02:18:09,190 --> 02:18:07,439
he would be surprised if that helicopter

3609
02:18:11,270 --> 02:18:09,200
made it back to fort carson because they

3610
02:18:12,629 --> 02:18:11,280
they literally tried to bring it down

3611
02:18:17,110 --> 02:18:12,639
with gunfire

3612
02:18:19,110 --> 02:18:17,120
oh wow helicopters um some fun there

3613
02:18:21,110 --> 02:18:19,120
yeah well tom again was the one that

3614
02:18:22,469 --> 02:18:21,120
really alerted me to always be on the

3615
02:18:24,629 --> 02:18:22,479
lookout for

3616
02:18:26,709 --> 02:18:24,639
any sort of unusual aerial activity be

3617
02:18:27,669 --> 02:18:26,719
it conventional or otherwise and and as

3618
02:18:30,870 --> 02:18:27,679
far as this whole thing about

3619
02:18:32,790 --> 02:18:30,880
helicopters morphing into uh ufos i've

3620
02:18:34,629 --> 02:18:32,800
got footage from the san luis valley uh

3621
02:18:35,830 --> 02:18:34,639
camera project some of the early footage

3622
02:18:37,910 --> 02:18:35,840
that we got

3623
02:18:39,910 --> 02:18:37,920
a number of years back where you see a

3624
02:18:42,070 --> 02:18:39,920
helicopter enter on the right side of

3625
02:18:44,469 --> 02:18:42,080
the screen and that canopy

3626
02:18:46,549 --> 02:18:44,479
is illuminated by the sun at just the

3627
02:18:49,110 --> 02:18:46,559
right angle and it turns into a silver

3628
02:18:50,950 --> 02:18:49,120
ball that scoots across the screen if i

3629
02:18:52,549 --> 02:18:50,960
had taken out the first

3630
02:18:53,990 --> 02:18:52,559
second or two of the footage and then

3631
02:18:56,309 --> 02:18:54,000
presented that

3632
02:18:57,270 --> 02:18:56,319
that would have been widely heralded as

3633
02:19:01,589 --> 02:18:57,280
a

3634
02:19:03,030 --> 02:19:01,599
sighting

3635
02:19:05,110 --> 02:19:03,040
because of the way the sun bloomed off

3636
02:19:08,309 --> 02:19:05,120
the canopy so appearances can be

3637
02:19:10,469 --> 02:19:08,319
deceiving unless unless we really have

3638
02:19:13,429 --> 02:19:10,479
you know really good optics on something

3639
02:19:14,629 --> 02:19:13,439
especially multiple uh camera angles

3640
02:19:16,709 --> 02:19:14,639
there's no way that you're going to be

3641
02:19:18,469 --> 02:19:16,719
able to determine much of anything if

3642
02:19:19,990 --> 02:19:18,479
you're filming even in daylight with

3643
02:19:21,910 --> 02:19:20,000
something within five miles away from

3644
02:19:24,070 --> 02:19:21,920
you it's it's

3645
02:19:25,750 --> 02:19:24,080
light can do so many uh strange things

3646
02:19:27,509 --> 02:19:25,760
especially on the curved canopy of a

3647
02:19:30,150 --> 02:19:27,519
helicopter do you think there's

3648
02:19:32,469 --> 02:19:30,160
something supernatural here in terms of

3649
02:19:33,750 --> 02:19:32,479
the mutilation phenomenon terms of the

3650
02:19:36,950 --> 02:19:33,760
helicopters

3651
02:19:39,110 --> 02:19:36,960
i don't uh occam's razor uh i think the

3652
02:19:41,589 --> 02:19:39,120
simplest explanation uh

3653
02:19:44,950 --> 02:19:41,599
is the one that i tend to go with

3654
02:19:47,349 --> 02:19:44,960
prop wash um sound of engines

3655
02:19:49,750 --> 02:19:47,359
even silent helicopters whipping trees

3656
02:19:51,910 --> 02:19:49,760
around with with the prop wash

3657
02:19:53,910 --> 02:19:51,920
these are mechanical devices

3658
02:19:57,270 --> 02:19:53,920
uh especially if they start firing back

3659
02:19:59,830 --> 02:19:57,280
at you with uh with small arms fire

3660
02:20:01,429 --> 02:19:59,840
aliens don't have a habit of doing that

3661
02:20:04,469 --> 02:20:01,439
to my knowledge using

3662
02:20:06,389 --> 02:20:04,479
small lead projectiles projected at uh

3663
02:20:07,990 --> 02:20:06,399
fast velocities it's just not something

3664
02:20:09,030 --> 02:20:08,000
that i equate i think it's apples and

3665
02:20:11,750 --> 02:20:09,040
oranges

3666
02:20:15,270 --> 02:20:11,760
therefore et does not have

3667
02:20:17,429 --> 02:20:15,280
a second amendment what doesn't have et

3668
02:20:19,750 --> 02:20:17,439
oh

3669
02:20:22,790 --> 02:20:19,760
well i'm sure they have like exotic you

3670
02:20:25,429 --> 02:20:22,800
know particle beam weapons and you know

3671
02:20:27,590 --> 02:20:25,439
photon torpedoes and

3672
02:20:29,590 --> 02:20:27,600
you know they've got to have something

3673
02:20:31,590 --> 02:20:29,600
a little bit more um

3674
02:20:34,230 --> 02:20:31,600
developed and high tech than than your

3675
02:20:36,790 --> 02:20:34,240
regular regular 30 odd 6 you know

3676
02:20:39,429 --> 02:20:36,800
and flying around in normal helicopters

3677
02:20:41,910 --> 02:20:39,439
and abducting people and using very

3678
02:20:44,790 --> 02:20:41,920
primitive instruments to

3679
02:20:46,230 --> 02:20:44,800
engage in their various

3680
02:20:47,510 --> 02:20:46,240
medical testing

3681
02:20:49,190 --> 02:20:47,520
well evidently you know with these

3682
02:20:50,710 --> 02:20:49,200
implants they don't have nano attack

3683
02:20:53,030 --> 02:20:50,720
because they're leaving these large

3684
02:20:55,830 --> 02:20:53,040
objects in people supposedly when all

3685
02:20:57,830 --> 02:20:55,840
you could needed to do is just to insert

3686
02:20:59,750 --> 02:20:57,840
a stream of nanoparticles that could be

3687
02:21:01,349 --> 02:20:59,760
self-organized and and

3688
02:21:03,510 --> 02:21:01,359
give you as much information as you want

3689
02:21:05,990 --> 02:21:03,520
even with our level of technology so i

3690
02:21:07,990 --> 02:21:06,000
don't know it's just so much of it just

3691
02:21:10,710 --> 02:21:08,000
as david brought up earlier it just has

3692
02:21:13,190 --> 02:21:10,720
this this real veneer of theatricality

3693
02:21:15,349 --> 02:21:13,200
that permeates every aspect of this and

3694
02:21:16,630 --> 02:21:15,359
i think people oftentimes take things at

3695
02:21:19,590 --> 02:21:16,640
face value

3696
02:21:21,110 --> 02:21:19,600
and then assume certain explanations

3697
02:21:23,670 --> 02:21:21,120
with just a little bit of digging a

3698
02:21:25,429 --> 02:21:23,680
little bit of analysis i think the

3699
02:21:27,190 --> 02:21:25,439
the average healthily skeptical person

3700
02:21:29,190 --> 02:21:27,200
is going to be able to see

3701
02:21:30,389 --> 02:21:29,200
that um you know the high strange

3702
02:21:31,670 --> 02:21:30,399
explanation

3703
02:21:33,830 --> 02:21:31,680
oftentimes

3704
02:21:35,190 --> 02:21:33,840
is really doesn't fit

3705
02:21:37,270 --> 02:21:35,200
and i think when it comes to the

3706
02:21:39,910 --> 02:21:37,280
helicopters we've had enough quality

3707
02:21:42,870 --> 02:21:39,920
sightings by ex-air force guys that

3708
02:21:43,990 --> 02:21:42,880
worked on helicopters uh law enforcement

3709
02:21:45,630 --> 02:21:44,000
individuals who've been around

3710
02:21:47,590 --> 02:21:45,640
helicopters a lot

3711
02:21:50,230 --> 02:21:47,600
ex-military types

3712
02:21:52,870 --> 02:21:50,240
ex-pilots we have too many good reports

3713
02:21:54,630 --> 02:21:52,880
of helicopter activity from

3714
02:21:56,710 --> 02:21:54,640
what you would think would be you know

3715
02:21:58,309 --> 02:21:56,720
highly informed and highly observant uh

3716
02:22:00,070 --> 02:21:58,319
witnesses who know

3717
02:22:01,670 --> 02:22:00,080
who know what they're looking at you

3718
02:22:03,590 --> 02:22:01,680
know if someone like that tells me yeah

3719
02:22:05,190 --> 02:22:03,600
we had this helicopter

3720
02:22:06,790 --> 02:22:05,200
spotlighting the ground or in the case

3721
02:22:08,309 --> 02:22:06,800
of last summer's cases in the wereford

3722
02:22:10,950 --> 02:22:08,319
know there was what five of them if i

3723
02:22:14,950 --> 02:22:10,960
remember correctly right uh david

3724
02:22:16,950 --> 02:22:14,960
you know there's too much consistency

3725
02:22:18,630 --> 02:22:16,960
uh when you look at helicopter reports

3726
02:22:20,790 --> 02:22:18,640
in conjunction with mutilation sites

3727
02:22:23,349 --> 02:22:20,800
there's there's a lot of really good

3728
02:22:25,349 --> 02:22:23,359
smoking gun evidence to tie those two

3729
02:22:28,469 --> 02:22:25,359
seemingly uh divergent

3730
02:22:31,030 --> 02:22:28,479
phenomena together at the hip and uh

3731
02:22:33,190 --> 02:22:31,040
ufos masquerading as helicopters that

3732
02:22:35,349 --> 02:22:33,200
would be pretty low down on my my list

3733
02:22:36,950 --> 02:22:35,359
of probable suspects you know there's a

3734
02:22:37,830 --> 02:22:36,960
very unusual

3735
02:22:41,270 --> 02:22:37,840
thread

3736
02:22:43,910 --> 02:22:41,280
in our forums at forum.powercast.com

3737
02:22:46,870 --> 02:22:43,920
and we have someone who posted a message

3738
02:22:49,110 --> 02:22:46,880
under the title the matrix

3739
02:22:51,510 --> 02:22:49,120
i guess you saw this chris or maybe you

3740
02:22:53,030 --> 02:22:51,520
didn't he's talking about is this a new

3741
02:22:55,349 --> 02:22:53,040
a new thread if it's a new thread no i

3742
02:22:57,990 --> 02:22:55,359
haven't okay it was posted last night no

3743
02:22:59,910 --> 02:22:58,000
i haven't seen it okay where he says

3744
02:23:02,790 --> 02:22:59,920
folks are telling accounts of what they

3745
02:23:05,190 --> 02:23:02,800
witness and the jerky quick and erratic

3746
02:23:07,510 --> 02:23:05,200
fast movements described

3747
02:23:08,870 --> 02:23:07,520
and he said it finally hit me cursor

3748
02:23:11,429 --> 02:23:08,880
movements by

3749
02:23:12,950 --> 02:23:11,439
a computer programmer and tech

3750
02:23:14,309 --> 02:23:12,960
therefore we're seeing something here

3751
02:23:17,670 --> 02:23:14,319
that represents

3752
02:23:20,150 --> 02:23:17,680
a matrix reality and that's what ufos

3753
02:23:22,230 --> 02:23:20,160
are it's a cursor moving cursors

3754
02:23:23,670 --> 02:23:22,240
in our skies i guess yeah that's got a

3755
02:23:25,110 --> 02:23:23,680
nice ring to it

3756
02:23:26,790 --> 02:23:25,120
doesn't it i mean it's something that

3757
02:23:28,230 --> 02:23:26,800
hit me and saying you know what

3758
02:23:30,790 --> 02:23:28,240
this is interesting though maybe we're

3759
02:23:32,870 --> 02:23:30,800
all creating ufos then as we use our

3760
02:23:34,630 --> 02:23:32,880
personal computers

3761
02:23:36,469 --> 02:23:34,640
we're creating

3762
02:23:38,230 --> 02:23:36,479
weird things in the sky

3763
02:23:39,349 --> 02:23:38,240
or somebody's looking at a giant

3764
02:23:41,510 --> 02:23:39,359
computer

3765
02:23:43,030 --> 02:23:41,520
and generating this reality for us for

3766
02:23:45,030 --> 02:23:43,040
our benefit

3767
02:23:46,950 --> 02:23:45,040
and that starts a whole

3768
02:23:48,790 --> 02:23:46,960
lineup of discussion because this thread

3769
02:23:51,270 --> 02:23:48,800
by the way it's called the matrix at

3770
02:23:53,590 --> 02:23:51,280
form.thepowercast.com

3771
02:23:54,630 --> 02:23:53,600
it started with i guess an innocent

3772
02:23:56,710 --> 02:23:54,640
message

3773
02:23:58,550 --> 02:23:56,720
but there are some very interesting

3774
02:24:00,630 --> 02:23:58,560
responses that i think our listeners

3775
02:24:02,870 --> 02:24:00,640
should check out don't dismiss this

3776
02:24:05,190 --> 02:24:02,880
unless you know maybe you do believe in

3777
02:24:07,429 --> 02:24:05,200
physical ufos but look at all the

3778
02:24:09,429 --> 02:24:07,439
alternatives yeah that's why i really

3779
02:24:12,230 --> 02:24:09,439
like our listenership and our forum

3780
02:24:14,630 --> 02:24:12,240
posters they're so creative and so

3781
02:24:17,030 --> 02:24:14,640
they're always thinking it's a constant

3782
02:24:19,030 --> 02:24:17,040
uh source of inspiration we gotta think

3783
02:24:26,870 --> 02:24:19,040
about breaking with gene and chris and

3784
02:24:31,190 --> 02:24:28,309
not just an alternative to the

3785
02:24:34,469 --> 02:24:31,200
mainstream media we're the premier

3786
02:24:36,870 --> 02:24:34,479
independent talk radio network we are

3787
02:24:38,950 --> 02:24:36,880
gcn

3788
02:24:41,270 --> 02:24:38,960
attack of the rockoids has been well

3789
02:24:42,870 --> 02:24:41,280
received by critics and readers alike

3790
02:24:44,309 --> 02:24:42,880
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

3791
02:24:46,230 --> 02:24:44,319
never forget

3792
02:24:48,710 --> 02:24:46,240
a former u s military intelligence

3793
02:24:51,270 --> 02:24:48,720
officer is haunted by intense dreams

3794
02:24:53,590 --> 02:24:51,280
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

3795
02:24:54,630 --> 02:24:53,600
help after a terrible battle in outer

3796
02:24:56,790 --> 02:24:54,640
space

3797
02:24:58,790 --> 02:24:56,800
but the dreams turn out to be true and

3798
02:25:01,510 --> 02:24:58,800
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

3799
02:25:04,389 --> 02:25:01,520
with a woman whose far away planet is

3800
02:25:06,630 --> 02:25:04,399
intent on destroying the earth and now

3801
02:25:09,270 --> 02:25:06,640
the gripping tale continues in the

3802
02:25:12,070 --> 02:25:09,280
coming of the protectors it's the second

3803
02:25:14,150 --> 02:25:12,080
book of the rockoids trilogy a galaxy

3804
02:25:16,710 --> 02:25:14,160
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3805
02:25:18,790 --> 02:25:16,720
heroes against powerful fanatical

3806
02:25:21,270 --> 02:25:18,800
enemies that threaten the lives of

3807
02:25:23,349 --> 02:25:21,280
freedom-loving beings everywhere

3808
02:25:26,389 --> 02:25:23,359
attack of the rockoids and

3809
02:25:29,429 --> 02:25:26,399
coming of the protectors classic science

3810
02:25:32,550 --> 02:25:29,439
fiction at its best available now

3811
02:25:36,790 --> 02:25:32,560
for more details visit rockoids.com

3812
02:25:38,870 --> 02:25:36,800
that's rock oids.com

3813
02:25:40,710 --> 02:25:38,880
hi this is sophie winik long time

3814
02:25:43,030 --> 02:25:40,720
distributor and user of longevity

3815
02:25:45,110 --> 02:25:43,040
products in the last few years my family

3816
02:25:46,790 --> 02:25:45,120
went through a crisis everything else in

3817
02:25:48,710 --> 02:25:46,800
my life including my business had to be

3818
02:25:50,309 --> 02:25:48,720
put on the back burner thankfully life

3819
02:25:51,990 --> 02:25:50,319
is getting back to normal now but the

3820
02:25:53,750 --> 02:25:52,000
one thing i never had to worry about was

3821
02:25:55,510 --> 02:25:53,760
my business and my monthly commission

3822
02:25:57,990 --> 02:25:55,520
i've been a distributor for youngevity

3823
02:25:59,830 --> 02:25:58,000
for over 17 years since before it was

3824
02:26:01,750 --> 02:25:59,840
youngevity and i've got to say the most

3825
02:26:04,070 --> 02:26:01,760
amazing thing about this company is the

3826
02:26:05,990 --> 02:26:04,080
people while my family was in crisis

3827
02:26:07,990 --> 02:26:06,000
other distributors stepped in and helped

3828
02:26:10,070 --> 02:26:08,000
my customers simply because that's what

3829
02:26:12,150 --> 02:26:10,080
youngevity people do even for people

3830
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3831
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about getting rich it was about a

3832
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product i could stand behind a company i

3833
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could count on and a monthly commission

3834
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3835
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in 17 years youngevity is truly a

3836
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business for everyone even people who

3837
02:26:31,750 --> 02:26:28,880
have too much to do i'm sophie winik i'm

3838
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just like you i have a real life real

3839
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ups and downs but i know i will always

3840
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we live in a complicated society

3841
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3842
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have you ever been treated unfairly by

3843
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someone have you ever been overcharged

3844
02:26:49,750 --> 02:26:47,680
for repair have you ever signed a

3845
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contract or a document worried about

3846
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3847
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been in those unique situations where

3848
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you just wanted to call an attorney to

3849
02:26:58,950 --> 02:26:57,200
find out if you're right or wrong or

3850
02:27:00,710 --> 02:26:58,960
what your legal rights are but every

3851
02:27:02,630 --> 02:27:00,720
time you think about calling an attorney

3852
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what do you think about first that's

3853
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3858
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3859
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3860
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3861
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3862
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3863
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3864
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3865
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3866
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3868
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3869
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vary from case to case

3870
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you're fired according to the small

3871
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business administration seventy five

3872
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percent of small businesses plan to

3873
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eliminate jobs or reduce workers hours

3874
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3875
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3876
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jumped to nearly nine percent and the

3877
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underemployment rate hit a staggering

3878
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3879
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three young adults and one out of two

3880
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3881
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3882
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3883
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3885
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looking for another job in corporate

3886
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3887
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3889
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like to show you how to do the same if

3890
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3891
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3892
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3893
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3894
02:28:30,710 --> 02:28:28,399
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3895
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3897
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3898
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3899
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one zero five

3900
02:28:45,349 --> 02:28:43,120
[Music]

3901
02:28:48,550 --> 02:28:45,359
hi this is nuclear physicist lecturer

3902
02:28:50,309 --> 02:28:48,560
stanton friedman you are listening to

3903
02:28:53,960 --> 02:28:50,319
the paracast

3904
02:28:59,510 --> 02:28:53,970
the gold standard of paranormal radio

3905
02:29:03,590 --> 02:29:01,190
with gene and chris we have david

3906
02:29:06,389 --> 02:29:03,600
perkins talking about the work of tom

3907
02:29:08,469 --> 02:29:06,399
adams and how it's influenced a lot of

3908
02:29:09,750 --> 02:29:08,479
our discussions in our previous segment

3909
02:29:11,590 --> 02:29:09,760
i brought out this

3910
02:29:13,750 --> 02:29:11,600
unusual forum thread at

3911
02:29:16,070 --> 02:29:13,760
forum.powercast.com

3912
02:29:18,630 --> 02:29:16,080
about ufos representing some kind of

3913
02:29:21,110 --> 02:29:18,640
matrix-like phenomenon but there are a

3914
02:29:23,270 --> 02:29:21,120
lot of fascinating cases that we just

3915
02:29:26,150 --> 02:29:23,280
barely scratched the surface on

3916
02:29:28,389 --> 02:29:26,160
i gather you david perkins have another

3917
02:29:30,389 --> 02:29:28,399
case a new case to talk about

3918
02:29:33,670 --> 02:29:30,399
this is true um

3919
02:29:35,510 --> 02:29:33,680
fall last august september

3920
02:29:37,030 --> 02:29:35,520
there were i believe eight

3921
02:29:39,590 --> 02:29:37,040
animals that were

3922
02:29:41,910 --> 02:29:39,600
supposedly mutilated up in

3923
02:29:43,429 --> 02:29:41,920
colorado and where fennel county where i

3924
02:29:46,469 --> 02:29:43,439
have a house up there

3925
02:29:48,230 --> 02:29:46,479
and i always find that a little odd

3926
02:29:50,550 --> 02:29:48,240
they all things up there always seem to

3927
02:29:52,150 --> 02:29:50,560
happen when i'm in santa fe oddly enough

3928
02:29:54,469 --> 02:29:52,160
but they're right there at my

3929
02:29:56,550 --> 02:29:54,479
front doorstep up there so it's almost

3930
02:29:58,469 --> 02:29:56,560
like somebody's sending me a message or

3931
02:29:59,750 --> 02:29:58,479
what here i mean you know probably

3932
02:30:01,270 --> 02:29:59,760
coincidence

3933
02:30:04,389 --> 02:30:01,280
but there aren't that many mutilations

3934
02:30:06,630 --> 02:30:04,399
these days anyway i did cover that uh

3935
02:30:09,110 --> 02:30:06,640
those cases up there in an investigative

3936
02:30:10,790 --> 02:30:09,120
series for the local newspaper

3937
02:30:12,950 --> 02:30:10,800
just wrote it up a straight journalism a

3938
02:30:14,790 --> 02:30:12,960
lot of helicopter activity a little bit

3939
02:30:16,870 --> 02:30:14,800
of saucer activity

3940
02:30:18,950 --> 02:30:16,880
lasers on the ground

3941
02:30:21,590 --> 02:30:18,960
all kinds of things that were quite an

3942
02:30:23,270 --> 02:30:21,600
interesting case very involved

3943
02:30:24,790 --> 02:30:23,280
and i must interrupt david and mention

3944
02:30:26,230 --> 02:30:24,800
to our listeners that the uh two

3945
02:30:28,070 --> 02:30:26,240
articles that he wrote

3946
02:30:30,150 --> 02:30:28,080
won the best uh story of the year from

3947
02:30:34,070 --> 02:30:30,160
the colorado press association for a

3948
02:30:36,389 --> 02:30:34,080
weekly uh newspaper for a series it was

3949
02:30:39,670 --> 02:30:36,399
called investigative package

3950
02:30:41,349 --> 02:30:39,680
was the official award best inves

3951
02:30:43,590 --> 02:30:41,359
investigative package anyway i just

3952
02:30:45,349 --> 02:30:43,600
wrote up a straight journalism

3953
02:30:46,870 --> 02:30:45,359
and uh yeah i won that award that was

3954
02:30:48,389 --> 02:30:46,880
fantastic i thought that was kind of

3955
02:30:50,150 --> 02:30:48,399
interesting that the colorado press

3956
02:30:52,790 --> 02:30:50,160
association would even recognize

3957
02:30:54,550 --> 02:30:52,800
mutilations as a legitimate

3958
02:30:56,230 --> 02:30:54,560
something to investigate

3959
02:30:58,630 --> 02:30:56,240
i thought that was significant in its

3960
02:30:59,510 --> 02:30:58,640
own way so okay we had the cases up

3961
02:31:00,389 --> 02:30:59,520
there

3962
02:31:02,790 --> 02:31:00,399
august

3963
02:31:05,590 --> 02:31:02,800
early september of last year

3964
02:31:06,710 --> 02:31:05,600
uh just the last few days i had a report

3965
02:31:10,469 --> 02:31:06,720
of another

3966
02:31:11,510 --> 02:31:10,479
mutilation up there in warfare county

3967
02:31:13,429 --> 02:31:11,520
about

3968
02:31:16,710 --> 02:31:13,439
very close to the interstate 200 yards

3969
02:31:19,190 --> 02:31:16,720
at most interstate 25 oddly enough right

3970
02:31:20,710 --> 02:31:19,200
under a camera

3971
02:31:22,710 --> 02:31:20,720
that

3972
02:31:25,349 --> 02:31:22,720
photographs the interstate for weather

3973
02:31:26,790 --> 02:31:25,359
purposes so you can get on online and go

3974
02:31:27,910 --> 02:31:26,800
there and see what's going on the

3975
02:31:29,990 --> 02:31:27,920
interstate

3976
02:31:31,429 --> 02:31:30,000
the camera of course didn't you know

3977
02:31:35,349 --> 02:31:31,439
wasn't trained on the area where the

3978
02:31:37,670 --> 02:31:35,359
mutilation was it was a a six week old

3979
02:31:38,469 --> 02:31:37,680
uh black angus

3980
02:31:40,550 --> 02:31:38,479
cap

3981
02:31:43,030 --> 02:31:40,560
it just had been castrated the week

3982
02:31:44,630 --> 02:31:43,040
before and branded it's like one of

3983
02:31:45,990 --> 02:31:44,640
those cases that chris and i call

3984
02:31:47,590 --> 02:31:46,000
equivocal

3985
02:31:49,910 --> 02:31:47,600
the photos i've seen i rounded up

3986
02:31:52,309 --> 02:31:49,920
everybody's photos and uh

3987
02:31:54,150 --> 02:31:52,319
the ranch owner who's a friend of mine

3988
02:31:55,110 --> 02:31:54,160
strangely enough

3989
02:31:58,710 --> 02:31:55,120
so

3990
02:31:59,830 --> 02:31:58,720
action on it

3991
02:32:01,750 --> 02:31:59,840
at

3992
02:32:03,750 --> 02:32:01,760
the least but there are also a few

3993
02:32:05,190 --> 02:32:03,760
things about it that didn't seem uh

3994
02:32:07,510 --> 02:32:05,200
quite normal

3995
02:32:10,550 --> 02:32:07,520
from my eye the

3996
02:32:13,030 --> 02:32:10,560
rectum cut as a circular cut around the

3997
02:32:15,590 --> 02:32:13,040
rectum area a lot of these animals it's

3998
02:32:19,429 --> 02:32:15,600
kind of what we call classic and it

3999
02:32:22,469 --> 02:32:19,439
looked to be very smooth and uh precise

4000
02:32:24,950 --> 02:32:22,479
but as chris and i know that can be also

4001
02:32:26,710 --> 02:32:24,960
the result of birds that can make a

4002
02:32:28,550 --> 02:32:26,720
something that look like that

4003
02:32:31,110 --> 02:32:28,560
uh the one other little item there's

4004
02:32:33,110 --> 02:32:31,120
there was a about a four foot uh

4005
02:32:35,190 --> 02:32:33,120
diameter circle

4006
02:32:36,790 --> 02:32:35,200
a few feet from the cow where something

4007
02:32:39,349 --> 02:32:36,800
looked like it had been impressed into

4008
02:32:41,030 --> 02:32:39,359
the dirt there you know this is again

4009
02:32:43,830 --> 02:32:41,040
who knows but there didn't seem to be

4010
02:32:46,150 --> 02:32:43,840
any other tracks or predator tracks or

4011
02:32:47,349 --> 02:32:46,160
human tracks or tire prints or anything

4012
02:32:49,990 --> 02:32:47,359
else and

4013
02:32:51,429 --> 02:32:50,000
and like i said this rancher

4014
02:32:54,070 --> 02:32:51,439
he's been in the ranching business all

4015
02:32:55,270 --> 02:32:54,080
his life he's an old-timer he's seen

4016
02:32:57,270 --> 02:32:55,280
everything

4017
02:32:59,910 --> 02:32:57,280
he knows what predators can do

4018
02:33:01,670 --> 02:32:59,920
and i asked him over and over is is

4019
02:33:03,510 --> 02:33:01,680
there any possibility this could be

4020
02:33:05,429 --> 02:33:03,520
predators i mean

4021
02:33:07,110 --> 02:33:05,439
he said nope i've never seen anything

4022
02:33:09,590 --> 02:33:07,120
like this in my life

4023
02:33:11,270 --> 02:33:09,600
and so you gotta weigh that in these

4024
02:33:12,870 --> 02:33:11,280
guys that's how they make their living

4025
02:33:14,309 --> 02:33:12,880
you know they kind of know these things

4026
02:33:17,270 --> 02:33:14,319
and i put a lot of faith in their

4027
02:33:18,950 --> 02:33:17,280
observations uh but then again he this

4028
02:33:21,190 --> 02:33:18,960
is not all that far from where the stuff

4029
02:33:23,590 --> 02:33:21,200
happened last summer so that was another

4030
02:33:26,230 --> 02:33:23,600
indication that maybe they're related

4031
02:33:28,550 --> 02:33:26,240
then uh just yesterday i got a report

4032
02:33:30,309 --> 02:33:28,560
that there had been another mutilation

4033
02:33:31,990 --> 02:33:30,319
very close to where the last summer's

4034
02:33:33,990 --> 02:33:32,000
activity took place

4035
02:33:35,990 --> 02:33:34,000
that happened apparently three weeks ago

4036
02:33:37,349 --> 02:33:36,000
and it just now came to light which

4037
02:33:39,750 --> 02:33:37,359
would have put it back around easter i

4038
02:33:41,349 --> 02:33:39,760
guess uh so that was one that the

4039
02:33:43,910 --> 02:33:41,359
sheriff's department apparently didn't

4040
02:33:45,270 --> 02:33:43,920
file an actual report on

4041
02:33:47,190 --> 02:33:45,280
the deputy went out there and looked at

4042
02:33:49,110 --> 02:33:47,200
it when yeah i don't know

4043
02:33:51,270 --> 02:33:49,120
they didn't file a report the one that

4044
02:33:53,110 --> 02:33:51,280
happened last week there was a sheriff's

4045
02:33:54,389 --> 02:33:53,120
report brand inspector everybody went

4046
02:33:55,990 --> 02:33:54,399
out and looked at it

4047
02:33:58,070 --> 02:33:56,000
they're making their evaluations on it

4048
02:34:00,309 --> 02:33:58,080
now did you find out anything more about

4049
02:34:02,230 --> 02:34:00,319
the laser because i remember

4050
02:34:03,750 --> 02:34:02,240
the same past pasture last august where

4051
02:34:04,790 --> 02:34:03,760
the eight animals were discovered the

4052
02:34:07,190 --> 02:34:04,800
prior

4053
02:34:09,110 --> 02:34:07,200
march there had been a report to the faa

4054
02:34:12,150 --> 02:34:09,120
about somebody about painting airplanes

4055
02:34:13,429 --> 02:34:12,160
with a laser from that exact location

4056
02:34:15,270 --> 02:34:13,439
now you mentioned something when you

4057
02:34:16,630 --> 02:34:15,280
talked to me earlier yeah about this

4058
02:34:19,270 --> 02:34:16,640
case about laser did you find that

4059
02:34:22,070 --> 02:34:19,280
anything more no that didn't pan out i

4060
02:34:24,230 --> 02:34:22,080
tracked it back and they had mistaken

4061
02:34:25,990 --> 02:34:24,240
there was a second party uh

4062
02:34:27,349 --> 02:34:26,000
report and they mistaken the laser

4063
02:34:29,429 --> 02:34:27,359
incident with the current one but it

4064
02:34:31,429 --> 02:34:29,439
wasn't as far as i could figure but the

4065
02:34:33,270 --> 02:34:31,439
one that you're referring to is

4066
02:34:34,870 --> 02:34:33,280
exceedingly strange because one of the

4067
02:34:36,309 --> 02:34:34,880
odds is you have this cluster of eight

4068
02:34:38,389 --> 02:34:36,319
mutilations

4069
02:34:40,950 --> 02:34:38,399
and the previous spring

4070
02:34:44,469 --> 02:34:40,960
the faa had several reports of somebody

4071
02:34:46,710 --> 02:34:44,479
shining lasers at airlines flying over

4072
02:34:47,830 --> 02:34:46,720
uh which is you know you've seen you

4073
02:34:50,389 --> 02:34:47,840
would have thought that would have made

4074
02:34:52,230 --> 02:34:50,399
the news it's kind of a big deal but you

4075
02:34:53,990 --> 02:34:52,240
know the gps coordinates of where that

4076
02:34:55,910 --> 02:34:54,000
laser was coming from happened to be

4077
02:34:58,230 --> 02:34:55,920
where the mutilations were found you

4078
02:34:59,030 --> 02:34:58,240
know a few months later

4079
02:35:01,670 --> 02:34:59,040
so

4080
02:35:03,510 --> 02:35:01,680
i just can't think of a scenario that

4081
02:35:05,750 --> 02:35:03,520
makes sense with any of that

4082
02:35:07,670 --> 02:35:05,760
we're talking really remote be out of

4083
02:35:10,070 --> 02:35:07,680
nowhere type locations here we're not

4084
02:35:12,150 --> 02:35:10,080
talking about some suburban area right i

4085
02:35:14,710 --> 02:35:12,160
mean this is miles and miles of a

4086
02:35:17,270 --> 02:35:14,720
pasture land uh very few trees

4087
02:35:19,190 --> 02:35:17,280
no places to hide uh very few roads and

4088
02:35:20,870 --> 02:35:19,200
what roads are there are usually uh you

4089
02:35:23,270 --> 02:35:20,880
know ranch roads that have gates and

4090
02:35:25,349 --> 02:35:23,280
locks on them yeah so

4091
02:35:27,270 --> 02:35:25,359
this laser thing really really intrigued

4092
02:35:30,790 --> 02:35:27,280
me and eucharist went after it with the

4093
02:35:33,590 --> 02:35:30,800
faa and they were very unhelpful and uh

4094
02:35:36,710 --> 02:35:33,600
we could not get any further with it but

4095
02:35:38,150 --> 02:35:36,720
we do have the reports that the faa said

4096
02:35:39,670 --> 02:35:38,160
call the sheriff's department said go

4097
02:35:40,710 --> 02:35:39,680
out to this location and see what's

4098
02:35:42,469 --> 02:35:40,720
going on

4099
02:35:43,990 --> 02:35:42,479
somebody's shooting lasers that are

4100
02:35:47,429 --> 02:35:44,000
airline pilots

4101
02:35:49,110 --> 02:35:47,439
on at least two probably three occasions

4102
02:35:51,110 --> 02:35:49,120
from that exact spot where the

4103
02:35:53,110 --> 02:35:51,120
mutilations were found the following

4104
02:35:55,110 --> 02:35:53,120
august i believe that the lasers were

4105
02:35:57,670 --> 02:35:55,120
either march or april but

4106
02:35:58,630 --> 02:35:57,680
uh so no lasers on these current cases

4107
02:35:59,750 --> 02:35:58,640
but

4108
02:36:01,750 --> 02:35:59,760
we have

4109
02:36:03,590 --> 02:36:01,760
something that at least the rancher

4110
02:36:06,309 --> 02:36:03,600
thinks is unusual

4111
02:36:07,590 --> 02:36:06,319
i'm 50 50 on it i had the circle i don't

4112
02:36:09,349 --> 02:36:07,600
know what could have created that circle

4113
02:36:11,349 --> 02:36:09,359
and nobody has any good idea what

4114
02:36:12,950 --> 02:36:11,359
created the four foot circle

4115
02:36:14,630 --> 02:36:12,960
i should add that these four foot

4116
02:36:15,990 --> 02:36:14,640
circles were seen in conjunction with

4117
02:36:17,110 --> 02:36:16,000
another mutilation in where fennel

4118
02:36:19,030 --> 02:36:17,120
county

4119
02:36:21,030 --> 02:36:19,040
several of them actually a few years

4120
02:36:23,110 --> 02:36:21,040
back in the levita area

4121
02:36:25,190 --> 02:36:23,120
guys said it looked like a tractor tire

4122
02:36:27,270 --> 02:36:25,200
had been you know compressed and it was

4123
02:36:29,830 --> 02:36:27,280
into the pretty deep grass

4124
02:36:31,750 --> 02:36:29,840
same four foot circle basically

4125
02:36:34,150 --> 02:36:31,760
so we got that we got what looks like

4126
02:36:37,270 --> 02:36:34,160
smooth cutting on the rectum area we've

4127
02:36:38,870 --> 02:36:37,280
got a mangled cow from what the deputy

4128
02:36:41,270 --> 02:36:38,880
said at least nobody else seems to have

4129
02:36:43,270 --> 02:36:41,280
looked in the mouth of this animal but

4130
02:36:45,030 --> 02:36:43,280
when the deputy clint bowler went out

4131
02:36:46,389 --> 02:36:45,040
there he pried the mouth open and looked

4132
02:36:48,150 --> 02:36:46,399
in there and said yep they got the

4133
02:36:50,710 --> 02:36:48,160
tongue it's cut straight across in the

4134
02:36:54,070 --> 02:36:50,720
back with a straight cut there you go

4135
02:36:55,510 --> 02:36:54,080
folks clear indication that the cattle

4136
02:36:59,190 --> 02:36:55,520
mutilation

4137
02:37:01,030 --> 02:36:59,200
scenario has not ended yet

4138
02:37:02,469 --> 02:37:01,040
david perkins can you tell listeners

4139
02:37:04,469 --> 02:37:02,479
what you're working on and where they

4140
02:37:06,469 --> 02:37:04,479
can find more of your work perhaps

4141
02:37:09,510 --> 02:37:06,479
well why don't they just go on that

4142
02:37:12,230 --> 02:37:09,520
google machine there and punch it up and

4143
02:37:14,070 --> 02:37:12,240
plus read all chris o'brien's books i

4144
02:37:16,230 --> 02:37:14,080
a lot of my stuff goes into his uh

4145
02:37:18,070 --> 02:37:16,240
prefaces and forwards and

4146
02:37:19,830 --> 02:37:18,080
main body of the work we work on those

4147
02:37:21,990 --> 02:37:19,840
things together a lot

4148
02:37:24,150 --> 02:37:22,000
it's there uh

4149
02:37:26,070 --> 02:37:24,160
it's findable and

4150
02:37:29,110 --> 02:37:26,080
yeah sure go look it up

4151
02:37:31,110 --> 02:37:29,120
as you see folks just recalling what tom

4152
02:37:33,910 --> 02:37:31,120
adams did for everyone

4153
02:37:36,309 --> 02:37:33,920
gets you into a rich area of ufo and

4154
02:37:38,150 --> 02:37:36,319
paranormal related research

4155
02:37:40,309 --> 02:37:38,160
you can find us on twitter we're known

4156
02:37:41,349 --> 02:37:40,319
as the powercast look for the powercast

4157
02:37:42,950 --> 02:37:41,359
on twitter

4158
02:37:46,230 --> 02:37:42,960
look for two

4159
02:37:47,750 --> 02:37:46,240
powercast fan clubs on facebook and some

4160
02:37:49,830 --> 02:37:47,760
people have been written to me said well

4161
02:37:51,670 --> 02:37:49,840
it's very easy to merge them yes you can

4162
02:37:53,750 --> 02:37:51,680
merge them but you kill the content with

4163
02:37:55,910 --> 02:37:53,760
one of them we have that second radio

4164
02:38:00,630 --> 02:37:55,920
show after the power cast go to

4165
02:38:05,030 --> 02:38:02,710
to learn how to subscribe to powercast

4166
02:38:07,349 --> 02:38:05,040
plus and download that

4167
02:38:08,550 --> 02:38:07,359
new radio show plus the enhanced version

4168
02:38:11,750 --> 02:38:08,560
of this show

4169
02:38:14,309 --> 02:38:11,760
if you subscribe for one year or more

4170
02:38:15,990 --> 02:38:14,319
you will get a free copy of chris

4171
02:38:17,510 --> 02:38:16,000
o'brien stalking the tricksters the

4172
02:38:18,950 --> 02:38:17,520
ebook version

4173
02:38:21,110 --> 02:38:18,960
by the way if you go to chris's site

4174
02:38:23,670 --> 02:38:21,120
ourstrangeplanet.com

4175
02:38:26,309 --> 02:38:23,680
you can make a donation there

4176
02:38:28,469 --> 02:38:26,319
to the san luis valley camera project

4177
02:38:31,030 --> 02:38:28,479
and chris will be posting updates real

4178
02:38:33,429 --> 02:38:31,040
soon now we've been remembering

4179
02:38:35,990 --> 02:38:33,439
the exciting work over the years from

4180
02:38:38,469 --> 02:38:36,000
tom adams and how he influenced a whole

4181
02:38:40,790 --> 02:38:38,479
generation of ufo and paranormal

4182
02:38:42,710 --> 02:38:40,800
researchers david perkins thanks for

4183
02:38:44,950 --> 02:38:42,720
joining us on the powercast

4184
02:38:54,710 --> 02:38:44,960
thank you gene thanks chris yeah thanks

4185
02:39:00,469 --> 02:38:57,590
the powercast featuring gene steinberg

4186
02:39:03,429 --> 02:39:00,479
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4187
02:39:05,190 --> 02:39:03,439
presentation of making the impossible

4188
02:39:09,349 --> 02:39:05,200
incorporated